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[EDITOR’S NOTE: This is a replay of the SALES GAME CHANGERS LIVE Webinar sponsored by the Institute for Excellence in Sales and hosted by Fred Diamond on December 15, 2020. It featured Blackbaud business leader Chris Krackeler and sales leader Meg Arnold.]

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Learn more about Chris here. Learn more about Meg here.

EPISODE 304: Blackbaud Leaders Chris Krackeler and Meg Arnold Discuss How to Prepare for 2021 Sales Success

CHRIS’ TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Listen and learn. On the listening side, one technique I’ve used is wait until someone finishes the last word that they’ve said, envision that last letter before you interject. We all go into sales because we like to talk, but you should always practice listening. It helps you be a trusted adviser and be open minded about learning. You can learn anywhere, from books, from people, from people above you in the org, from peers, from people on your team.”

MEG’S TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Keep yourself healthy, both mentally and physically. Start thinking about next year. How you can change things up next year knowing what we’re going to be facing. Finally, have some fun. It’s the holiday season!”

Fred Diamond: Let’s get to it, we’ve got Chris Krackeler and Meg Arnold. First of all, thank you so much for being with us today. Chris Krackeler was a guest on the Sales Game Changers podcast about 18 months ago, we got a lot of great interaction and I’m glad that Chris invited one of his sales leaders, Meg Arnold, to be on the show today as well.

Chris, it’s great to see you again, let’s get started. You’re leading the business side now so how has the business been affected by the pandemic and how has it affected your efforts?

Chris Krackeler: We only have 45 minutes [laughs]. I’m Chris Krackeler, I work for Blackbaud, we’re the world’s leading cloud software company powering social good and I am the President and General Manager of our higher ed vertical. Like anything, it feels so cliché to say the pandemic has caused us to pivot some of our strategies and techniques but of course it has. Blackbaud provides solutions across a number of verticals: non-profits, higher ed, K-12, healthcare, arts and culture, faith-based. We’re known for helping organizations raise more money although we do a lot more than that, financials, marketing, analytics, you name it. In times before the pandemic, institutions would come to us and say, “Blackbaud, how can you help us raise more money?” and in the higher ed space, often times that was a big capital campaign. We helped Boston University raise $1.8 billion and during the pandemic, the focus that we’ve seen from institutions is less about how you help the organization broadly speaking and it’s more about how you help us right here right now whether that’s with students in need or suffering hardships from the pandemic or whether that’s student safety or needing to grant out more scholarships to help people in need. It’s been a pivot from macro level to, “Help us right here, right now.”

Fred Diamond: That’s a really interesting point. For the loyal listeners of the Sales Game Changers webinars and podcasts we actually made a shift about three months in where we started using the #rightnow in almost everything that we did because you’re right. Prior to the pandemic it was, “How can you help me down the road the next couple years?” and as a sales professional you’re looking at, “What value can I bring my customers into the future?” Now it’s right now and the markets that you’re talking about, higher education, not for profit, faith-based, they’ve all gone through monster shifts.

Meg, tell us a little more. Again, you’re on the not for profit side, Chris talked about things that you’re helping them with right now. We don’t need to know how they’ve been affected – we do know that – but how have you been responding with them, working with them knowing that they’re going through these challenges right now?

Meg Arnold: I will talk a little bit about how they’ve been affected because on the non-profit vertical some have been affected in positive ways and others in very negative ways. A lot of our very large non-profits, my customers, think the large CURE Organizations or Cause organizations, they were very heavily funded by events, these traditional run walk ride events and they’re really suffering because they haven’t been able to have those this year, they haven’t been able to have them after March. How we’re helping those folks is helping them to pivot to virtual events which has been successful for some, not as much for everyone, not as successful as their in-person events have been in the past or help them identify other ways to raise money.

On the other hand, we have large organizations like social service organizations, think food banks or others providing services. They have more money than they’ve had in a long time, see Feeding America, lots of big donations to Feeding America this year. How we’re helping both sets is on the analytics side, we’re analyzing new donors, where they can look for additional revenue from those new donors or in the case of some of the others that are getting more donations, how can we help them identify those people to become lifetime donors or long-term donors? That’s how they’ve been affected and that’s how we’re helping them, we’re not seeing a lot of large purchases or changes for new solutions at this point so we’re just helping them be successful with what they’re doing right now, like Chris said.

Fred Diamond: Everyone has been responding to what’s going on even though it’s evened out a little bit, I’m just curious, have you seen the engagement in the world-class technology that you guys offer be enabled by your customers right now?

Chris Krackeler: Yes, definitely, I think so. I’ve been impressed with how all of our clients have responded. One example, Bradley University in Illinois, college and universities typically do Day of Giving and this is a chance to get alumni to encourage other alumni to give back to the school. This year Bradley did its Day of Giving and the message wasn’t about, “Click here to give money to help Bradley”, it was, “Click here to help students and faculty that are suffering economic hardships” and it was one of their most successful giving days ever. I think it raised more than $400 thousand dollars in a single day. There’s lots of examples of clients changing what they’re doing a little bit, Fred, you use the #rightnow. It’s how do you have the message be more tailored to today’s environment? We’ve seen that work.

Fred Diamond: Meg, a follow up to what Chris just said, how are you working or how have you worked with your sales team to get them into the mode of being responsive, of working with them today? How have you led them? As the sales leader, how have you worked with your salespeople to get them to be as good as they can be in having those conversations?

Meg Arnold: We’ve pivoted as everyone has in different ways. We’re looking at how we can help them, how we can provide them information data, things to help them be more successful. We’ve definitely seen a lot more analytics which has been very important to a lot of our customers so we’ve pivoted to where we’re selling a lot of analytics. We had a team that was selling analytics in the past and we put that now into the salespeople’s bags so they are responsible for that and we’ve gotten them up to speed very quickly. They’re now able to talk about doing predictive modeling and things that they probably weren’t in the past, that was a big change and instead of just focusing on the very large deals, the very large CRM piece, we’re trying to figure out how we can help them in other ways or selling them services to set up their virtual events, something different. Those are the kind of things that we’re doing now as opposed to what we would traditionally have been doing in the past.

Fred Diamond: Follow up question to you, Chris. How long has Blackbaud been around, by the way?

Chris Krackeler: Almost 40 years, founded in 1981.

Fred Diamond: You guys are a developer of software, that is the baseline behind the business that higher education, not for profits use in a lot of ways but bringing software to market, there’s always great features that are never used and people may be using 10% of amazing software. As the business leader, this was an opportunity I guess based on what Meg was just saying where now the customers want to use analytics and they want to get deeper engaged with their customers. As the business leader, this has been an opportunity for Blackbaud to get more and more of the great value that you’re providing them for them to be using.

Chris Krackeler: In any challenge there’s certainly opportunity and I agree with everything you said about, as a company you build this great software but many users use the top 10% or 20%. How do you help clients drive better adoption and better usage and how do you help clients generate more value from what we provide? That’s a process, not an event. It’s not a simple, “Let’s flip the switch and now everyone’s maximizing everything.” We are in the process of making investments that are designed to give us a little more horsepower to help clients along that journey develop more value, use more of the software and drive better outcomes.

Fred Diamond: We have a couple questions here coming in from the audience. The question comes in from one of our good friends, Susie who’s in New Jersey, “Finally, Fred, you have a interview guest who can truly talk about empathy.” It’s interesting, we talk about empathy on almost every show, we’re doing webinars every single day, empathy has been coming up from day 1. You guys serve the quintessential empathetic markets and here you are. How have you been engaging in an empathetic way and Meg, how have you been directing your team to engage in empathetic conversations? Susie, thank you for the question. It really is interesting, we talk about it on at least 75% of the Sales Game Changers webinars that we do and here you are dealing with the customers who live in the space of empathy. How have you directed your people to engage in those kinds of conversations?

Meg Arnold: Our customers are going through the same things we are, suddenly they’re forced to work from home, for the first few months they had issues with childcare or figuring out how to get their kids up on their Zoom calls for their studies, they’re learning algebra again [laughs] a lot of things like that as well as just trying to figure out what’s happening. They’re fearful for their jobs, all of the same things that a lot of people are going through. Just like I do with my people, I start out most calls with customers just being empathetic, asking them how they’re doing, how things are going at the organization, how they’re feeling personally. You develop relationships with some of them and I think they appreciate that, I think if there’s one positive thing that’s come from this is that we’re getting to learn about these people a little bit more and getting closer to these people. In some ways, it’s more casual because everybody’s going through the same things and you’re talking about the same things and sharing information so it’s easy to be empathetic. Then from how to help them, I think we’re asking those questions, “How can we help you? What can we provide you with to make your job easier? Can we help you with the return on investment piece of this? Can we help you with a presentation to the board to explain why you need to do this?” I feel like we’re helping a lot more than we have in the past or deeper than we have in the past with some of the customers.

Fred Diamond: I want to follow up with that and Chris or Meg, either one of you can take this. We talked about right now and one of the main themes that we’ve seen over the Sales Game Changers webinars that we’ve been doing is that you need to come to your customer with value for them foreseeing what they could be using with your solutions. Have you directed that from above to the sales organization? I’m curious how a company like Blackbaud has figured those things out and then got them into the hands of the salespeople to communicate them to the customers. Have you directed your salespeople to figure it out and then go or has a central organization, maybe Chris, at your level or marketing – someone else here said that’s a great question, they’re dealing with that as well. Are you coming up with the solutions, spreading them to the sales team and then saying go to the customer or have you left them up to their own to figure it out? Chris, with your roots in sales maybe you could start with that.

Chris Krackeler: I’m dying to say I came up with this incredible vision and we rolled it out but jokes aside, all of the above, what you’re talking about, is that centralized from a place? Is that from marketing or sales coming back to you with what they need? I think all of the above. As leaders, we’re trying to listen and really understand what our salespeople are feeling and experiencing on the ground. We have great fantastic colleagues in marketing that are doing market analysis all the time and trying to come up with offers and packages that are a little bit different based on #rightnow. It’s a combination of all of the above but as a leader and as Meg and I work together, she was always fantastic at soliciting ideas and then getting the internal team together. “Let’s communicate, let’s agree on what’s going to work best, let’s try some things if we have to and then let’s go out and not be afraid to do something different.”

Fred Diamond: Meg, at the field level managing a team, how are you organizing that with your team? Are you having brainstorming sessions? Talk a little bit about how you’ve actuated your team to be empowered to come up with some of these ideas or are you just directing them?

Meg Arnold: I was talking to Chris a little bit about this yesterday. One of the things that I instituted this year was a team-only meeting. Usually we have a team meeting where we have other people come in and talk about their product or their marketing play or whatever. First of all, we have a group of extreme extroverts that we’re managing that are stuck in a place and some are really struggling after a few weeks not being able to get out and see people in person. Those first few meetings were a lot of complaining and people not with a lot of good ideas but then we turned that into, “What can we be doing, what’s working and what isn’t working?” We brainstorm and then we choose people to work with marketing on some ideas.

You were asking about some of the things that came from above our marketing department, I don’t know where this idea came from but every six weeks we invited all of our customers that use our product for event fundraising, our TeamRaiser product. They shared how virtual events were working for them, it was a round table with our customers and that was very productive. We had a couple thousand people that would attend those at times just to hear out how other people were pivoting and changing. That came from our marketing team, we had a landing page for the resilient non-profit, “Here are ideas, here are different things that you could be using” and things that we were sharing with our customers.

Fred Diamond: We have a question here that comes in from Melissa, Melissa is in the DC area, she’s typically a viewer on almost every show that we do. She says, “Are you requiring that your sales team keep your cameras on throughout the day? That’s an interesting question. You can answer that question if you’d like but the other question is are you requiring that your salespeople be a certain way? Almost everybody I presume is working from home, I see both of your beautiful home offices there and I’m in my home office as almost everybody that we’ve interviewed. Have you dictated how they need to be? Now that we know that this is what it is and it’s most likely going to be very similar at least for the first 6 months of 2021, how have you mandated certain things like that? Meg, why don’t we start with you? Then Chris, I’m interested in your thoughts on how you’re directing the people in the business line the same way.

Meg Arnold: Chris has always been a big proponent of having the video on, we’ve been doing that on his team for a long time. I don’t dictate that everyone has to do this but I do feel like you should be on camera always with your customers so they can see you and I think for the most part, we’re doing that. Earlier in the year our sales leadership team for the non-profit vertical, we put together a best practices kind of thing. We asked our customers to be on video as well, I was on one the other day, all of the Blackbaud people were on and nobody from the customer was on so that’s a little awkward. At some point in time you get out the camera and let whoever’s presenting be on and that’s it, otherwise you’re all just sitting there. But for the most part I think it is important because now more than ever people need to connect with you, you’re not in a room with them, you can’t shake their hand so at least having a face and a name that they can relate to I think is important.

Fred Diamond: Chris, how about you? Have you been directing things like this down the line?

Chris Krackeler: As Meg mentioned, this is one of the few areas I’ve been ahead of my time. I’ve been promoting the camera on for a while but jokes aside, I wouldn’t say we mandate it but I strongly encourage that you take advantage of video technology to connect with colleagues and with clients. Not only sales but business is about authenticity and connections and listening and understanding, video provides us a way to do that in a way that audio doesn’t and Fred, I know you’re great about pulling tips and tricks out of people and promoting that on the show. I think video is one, another one I learned from a colleague of mine this year, we were chatting and she said, “Chris, how are you?” “I’m fine” and I kind of jumped into things. She paused and she said, “No, really, Chris. How are you?”

It was a nice empathetic and relaxed way of getting me to exhale and come out of my busy persona and then give a more candid answer. I’m sure I said something in the effect of, “We’re all busy, we’re all challenged, this year has been hard but I’m doing okay.” This was my colleague Teri in marketing and I’ve tried to do that a little bit, just pause and say, “Meg, Fred, really, how are you?” It’s just another way to get people to exhale and connect and to make yourself vulnerable and approachable in the same way.

Fred Diamond: We have a quick question here that just came in from Gene, “Would you ask the same question to a prospect?” You have a lot of customers who’ve been using your software for a while and Meg, you gave some great answers before about how you quickly shift into getting them to get a lot more value. Meg, would you engage in that type of a conversation like Chris just talked about with either a prospect or a new customer? Just curiously, would you encourage the salespeople on your team to? We talked about empathy, it’s very easy to say, “How are you doing today?” It’s the 6th month of the pandemic and if you know somebody who has a couple young kids and you know that they’re teaching them you could always say, “How are you? That’s great” and it’s a difference to say, “No, really, how are you?” Would you encourage your salespeople to do that? Chris, I’m just curious if you would talk to customers the same way.

Meg Arnold: I think even a prospect I would definitely have some of that conversation, I don’t know if I’d say, “Really, how are you?” but I think I would say, “How has your business been going? How has this affected you personally?” I would do that and I would encourage my people to do that as well because again, this is the kind of talk you would be having if you were walking into a meeting and you’d have that chit-chat for the first 10 minutes or you’d all get to know each other. I think it’s the same on the phone and especially if you have the cameras on, one of the things that I’ve been surprised about, at first I’d have some calls with customers and they’d be a little more dressed up, it’s gotten to the point where everybody’s still in their workout clothes or those kind of things [laughs]. It’s much more casual and in some ways that’s really cool because that’s your life now, it’s just completely different. I would encourage that even with prospects. If they don’t respond or they don’t want to have that conversation, that’s fine but I think you’re asking them how they’re doing or how their business is doing, I think that’s totally appropriate.

Fred Diamond: I just want to comment to the people listening to this as a Sales Game Changers podcast, Chris and I are both wearing sport coats and you’re also wearing a very lovely blouse, so we didn’t show up to this in sport attire but I understand what you’re saying. It’s been an opportunity to build the relationships. I’m just curious here, a lot of people are posting on LinkedIn and a lot of people are finding out about today’s interview on LinkedIn so thank you. People are talking about being reflective, if you didn’t reflect in 2020 you’re probably never going to reflect a day in your life [laughs] but how have you both changed as leaders? Chris, when we first met you, you were a sales leader, you’ve risen up the ranks there to run a large part of the business. How do you think you both have changed as leaders over the last 9 months? Chris, why don’t you go first? Then Meg, I want to know your answer as well.

Chris Krackeler: I think as a leader whether it’s over a lot of business or over sales, I’ve always been focused on results as well as the people that are driving and making the results possible. I think this year my pendulum, if maybe it was in the middle or even a little bit on that results side in the past, is shifting more to the people side. I think as a leader I’ve wanted to be authentic and concerning and I want to know how the team is doing, but we don’t need to pretend that this year is normal. It’s okay for it to be hard and I wanted to do what we call connection conversations with my leaders and the broader team to really understand what people are going through, what they’re feeling, what’s going well, what they’re struggling with. I’ve done a series of focus groups with marketers and people in customer success and sales on the ground, I really want to understand what’s working, what’s not, what they want to see more of from Blackbaud, how we can help them right here, right now and how we can the best possible place to work there is. I’ve found myself as a leader shifting that pendulum and I think it’s been healthy and well-received. Hopefully when the pandemic’s done my pendulum doesn’t snap back, that’s how I’ve evolved a little bit.

Fred Diamond: Meg, how about you? How have you seen yourself evolve and change as a sales leader of the last 8-9 months?

Meg Arnold: I think I’ve always been pretty empathetic a sales leader in general but I think I’m certainly spending more time on that. I’m more flexible because everybody has situations that are different these days but I think the biggest thing is – and this is a tell on me – I was having a really bad day and I brought that to a meeting and people kept calling me and going, “Are you okay?” I realized how much my attitude affects everyone else, everyone was upset and worried, “Meg’s mad or there’s something wrong.”

Chris Krackeler: It also shows they genuinely care about you or they wouldn’t have called.

Meg Arnold: Right. There’s an article today from the Harvard Business Review, “How to Lead When the Whole World is Tired.” It’s really interesting and if you haven’t read that, you should read it. It’s talking about you have to be that person that’s part of it leading that charge, keeping positive, keeping things going forward. I worked for Chris 8 of my 10 years at Blackbaud, he’s always been a real positive, upbeat person as well and I think I am too so whenever things aren’t good, people are concerned and they’re worried. I’m really more conscious of that and really careful about how I present myself to everyone.

Fred Diamond: We’re doing today’s show in the middle of December and in most areas it’s going to be kind of bleak as winter is kicking in. A lot of the salespeople who listen to the Sales Game Changers are in the early stage of their career so we’ve started hearing from this over the last couple of months. Either they’re living right now in a small apartment or they’re living in a slightly larger one with one or two other people or they’re living in their parent’s basement and they’re making a lot of phone calls over the course of the day. One of the topics that has risen has been the whole concept of mental health and I’m just curious, what would be your advice? Everybody of course is being affected in various different ways, but again a lot of people who listen to the podcast are junior in their career, first 4, 5, 6 years and they listen to the Sales Game Changers podcast and our webinars to get to the next level and to grow their career.

What might be your advice for them right now to stay as healthy as they can be, to make it through the next 3, 4 months when they’re not going to be able to go out? Gyms are closed for the most part, places around the country are shutting down. I just heard before I got on today’s show that New York City is probably going to go through another shutdown in the course of the next couple weeks which is going to last a month. What would be your advice for the sales professionals who are in that situation to stay as healthy as possible? I realize it’s a pretty big question to put you on the spot for, but what might be some ideas for them to make it through? Then I want to ask you for your final thoughts for the salespeople to take their career to the next level. A lot of heavy stuff going on right now. Meg, why don’t you go first? For the sales professionals in the early stage of their career, what would be your advice to help them make it through the next couple months as it is?

Meg Arnold: That’s really tough, some of the things that you described, of course I lived that at some point in my life as well. I think you still have to shut down if you can, if you live where it’s snowing, you’ve got boots and a coat, take a walk, just get out and keep your mind active because it’s really easy to get stuck here and I say that all the time. I sit in this chair for 10 hours a day sometimes and I have to make myself at least go and do something in the mornings first thing early or else I won’t get it done. I think that’s really important, there are a lot of great podcasts that can keep you motivated now, reading, in our Women in Sales Group we just put together a suggested list of reading. We did a vision board just recently in our Women in Sales group to talk about what 2021 looks like to you, we all need to have a vision of what that can look like for us next year, I think I’m even going to do that with my team. Things like that that are a little outside of what you would normally do, those are some things I would suggest that you do.

Fred Diamond: Chris, do you want to offer a suggestion as well?

Chris Krackeler: Similar, you have to be intentional and purposeful about coping strategies and finding things that can help provide peace, sanity, you name it. For some people in times of pandemic it can be exercise, for others it might be an extra glass of wine or two some nights, other people practice mindfulness and gratitude. Some days I manage to mix in all three of those remedies, but you need to take time out and be intentional and purposeful about anything you need to do to care for yourself to make sure you’ve got the energy and the right health to care for the other people in your life both personal and professional.

Fred Diamond: Meg, what are your expectations for your sales professionals right now? It may be different for people who are a little more senior versus junior. Chris, I’m also interested in your thoughts on what might be your expectations for the sales leaders on your team right now but Meg, let’s start with you. For the junior and senior sales professionals, what are your expectations of them right now?

Meg Arnold: Right now it’s the end of the year so it’s continue to follow your deals to the end, close business and then also building pipeline for next year because there’s nothing better than going into the next year with a lot of opportunities. Also, it’s the holidays, take some time and have some fun. What I want everyone to think about is knowing that we’re going back into probably another six months of this lockdown, what can I do differently? Ask yourselves, what did I learn from the first three or four months when we were really scrambling trying to figure out what to do next and how can I change that next year? I think those are all things that I’d ask them to do, I’m also going to ask them about this vision board, start thinking about what that looks like and what they really want to accomplish next year. I manage a very senior group of people and these are people that are used to being recognized making their number, winning the club trip and very extroverted so it’s been very hard this year. Knowing that they’re probably going to be stuck for a while in this same position, what can they change and do better for next year? Those are mine.

Fred Diamond: Lou says, “Great answers.” The pipe is life so as a sales professional you’ve got to be thinking about your pipeline all the time even during this challenging time. Chris, before I ask you both for your final action steps, what are your expectations for the sales leaders that are in the organization and how can people here take that to heart?

Chris Krackeler: My expectation is you’ve had to come off your expectations of the results a little bit. Early in the pandemic I tried to quantify, because I’m an analytic person, “Let’s quantify the impact of COVID and let’s apply that.” As COVID dragged on, that became harder and harder so my expectation is effort. Day in and day out you’ve got to continue to care and continue to try and do your best of a challenging situation. A technique we’ve used is making sure that we’re always keeping in mind our focus on our clients and understanding their lens because while it’s easy to see what our teams and our company are going through, I always want to pivot back.

If you look at the higher ed world and how impacted it’s been financially, enrollment is down, athletics has been impacted and that impacts financials, in some cases state funding is down and that impacts financials. Then look at all that higher ed has had to deal with, “Are we doing in-person or virtual? Are we opening campus up? No we’re not.” I’ve been super impressed with our clients and how so many of them have remained focused not on just the internal stuff they’re dealing with but focused on student and faculty health and wellbeing. I try to use those examples of the important work that Blackbaud does to help these institutions and use these examples to help our staff and our broader team understand that we’re not alone. There’s a lot of individuals and institutions struggling and we provide a lot of necessary value.

Fred Diamond: One thing that we’ve been talking a lot about on the daily webinars that we do is the fact that for the first time in our sales history, we know what all of our customers are going through. We know that they’re dealing with the ramifications of the pandemic, we know that they’re dealing with the economic impact which you just hit upon and a third thing, whatever that third thing might be. Prior to the pandemic, one of the big challenges was trying to understand what the customer’s pain or what their vision might be, where they’re trying to get to. If you’re a sales professional right now and you don’t know what your customer is going through, you’ve really missed the boat, you really have missed the opportunity to get to them with things that are going to help them get past the challenges of COVID, the financial side, whatever that third thing might be.

We’re getting great input here, Jennifer says, “This is fantastic.” Susie says, “Thank you so much to Chris and to Meg.” I want to thank you both, you’ve given us so many great ideas. We like to end every Sales Game Changer webinar and podcast with an action step that our listeners can take. Meg, why don’t you go first? Then Chris, bring us home. Action step listeners must do today.

Meg Arnold: I say keep yourself healthy, some of the things we talked about, both mentally and physically. Start thinking about next year because we’re at the end, how you can change things up next year knowing what we’re going to be facing and have some fun, it’s the holiday season. That’s the other thing I’d say.

Fred Diamond: It is the 2020 holiday season. By the way, happy Hanukkah to any of our listeners who celebrate. Chris, how about you? Give us your action step people must implement today.

Chris Krackeler: Listen and learn. On the listening side, one technique I’ve used is wait till someone finishes the last word that they’ve said, envision that last letter before you interject. We all go into sales because we like to talk, always practice listening, it helps you be a trusted adviser and be open minded about learning. You can learn anywhere, from books, from people, from people above you in the org, from peers, from people on your team. I learned a ton from Meg over the years even when she reported to me, always be open to that feedback and focus on the journey and not just that moment in time.

Fred Diamond: The journey is the reward.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo

The post EPISODE 304: Blackbaud Leaders Chris Krackeler and Meg Arnold Discuss How to Prepare for 2021 Sales Success first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

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EPISODE 166: Blackbaud’s Chris Krackeler Says This Aristotelian Lesson Helps Motivate His Sales Teams to Excel

CHRIS’ FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “If you remember nothing else, remember the value of listening, being authentic and having fun. I’ve been fortunate to get a lot of positive feedback in my career, but I’ve also gotten my fair share of constructive criticism. I think being able to listen to that, the good, the bad, the ugly and grow from it is a way that’s helped me continue to grow and evolve my career.

Chris Krackeler is the Vice President of Non-Profit Sales at Blackbaud.

Prior to coming to Blackbaud, he held sales leadership positions at Convio and GetActive.

Find Chris on LinkedIn!

Chris Krackeler: Thank you, Fred it’s great to be here. I’ve been in sales for 20+ years, I’ve had the pleasure of leading sales at technology startups at middle-stage companies and now Blackbaud which is a publicly traded company. I’ve been in the Washington DC area now since undergrad, I think that makes me a native, it’s been long enough. I like technology, politics and leading teams and people.

Fred Diamond: We said you’re the VP of Nonprofit Sales. We have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe, what is a nonprofit?

Chris Krackeler: Blackbaud serves the entire philanthropic sector, so hospitals, higher-ed institutions, museums, foundations and nonprofits, nonprofits being anything from the American Red Cross to local food and hunger shelters.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about what you sell today, tell us what excites you about that.

Chris Krackeler: Blackbaud’s vision is to power an ecosystem of good that builds a better world. What does this mean? We sell cloud-based solutions that span multiple areas. Everything from digital to social to CRM, analytics, financials and grants. Again, I work specifically with nonprofits and I’m excited and passionate to work every day with organizations that are changing the world for the better. All of our clients are inspiring and great to work with.

Fred Diamond: Tell us about your career. How did you first get into sales as a career?

Chris Krackeler: I was a political science major at Georgetown University, I wanted to be a lawyer or a lobbyist, I hadn’t really thought much about sales at all. In senior year in college there was a well-known consulting company and they were recruiting, I got invited to their location where they bring a number of us for a big, long day of on-site interviews. I got to meet with six executives that day and at lunch, the midway point, I was looking at my dossier to see who was on the schedule for the afternoon, and just began chatting and networking with them a little bit at lunch preparing for the afternoon. There was a VP of Sales, ran a small sales group in this larger consulting company, saw me doing this and said, “I want him for my sales and marketing team.” I stumbled into it that way and I’ve been in sales for the last 20+ years.

Fred Diamond: You went into sales right after college?

Chris Krackeler: Yes.

Fred Diamond: What are some of the key lessons that you learned when you first took that sales job?

Chris Krackeler: I think the value of understanding the clients you work with, how their business works in the solutions you sell, not just understanding features and benefits but really being able to listen. I don’t think people want to be sold to, but everybody likes to talk about their business, the challenges they have, the results they want to drive, the outcomes they want to achieve. For me, I’m in the world of technology and philanthropy so I apply that by understanding how our clients work, what are their goals, how do they measure their goals, what are the outcomes they want to achieve. I would encourage anyone to get really good at understanding the business value of what your solutions can offer and how you can help clients.

Fred Diamond: Again, you service the nonprofit marketplace. What are some of the key drivers for people who sell things to those types of entities?

Chris Krackeler: It’s not that different from the for-profit world, it just has different terminology. It’s all about acquisition and retention, same with the for-profit business, you want to gain new clients, you also want to keep or retain the clients you have. In the nonprofit world, that’s called fundraising. Nonprofits also do marketing and they do awareness and activism and volunteering so there are other outcomes, but fundraising is a big driver.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about your specific area of brilliance. What are you an expert in?

Chris Krackeler: Brilliance is a strong word, but as a leader I want to excel in two areas. I want to excel in understanding the numbers and I want to excel in motivating the people around me, both my staff and clients. It’s the art and the science of the profession, I want to make sure that people are motivated by me as a leader and by the programs we set up. I also want to understand the numbers really well, what are the levers to pull? What’s the size of the pipeline, the average deal cycle, how do we get the engine or the machine to work more efficiently?

Fred Diamond: We’re going to talk a little bit about some of the challenges you face, but you mentioned motivating. What are some of the things, Chris, that you see today that motivate successful sales professionals?

Chris Krackeler: I’m going to quote Aristotle here, I think happiness comes from virtue and it also comes from prosperity. We want to create an environment where salespeople can be successful but also do the right thing based on the clients they serve, also our company. We want to also create an environment where it’s positive and fun. Not rah-rah fun, but fun in that we enjoy the fruits of our own effort, we enjoy our hard work and we enjoy the noble profession that you and I both work in.

Fred Diamond: I think we once had someone who quoted Plato, so good for you with the Aristotle. That’s the first time on the Sales Game Changers podcast. Speaking of Aristotle, you’ve probably had some great mentors along the way. Tell us about an impactful sales career mentor or two and how they impacted your career.

Chris Krackeler: Multiple, I’ve been super fortunate to work with very talented people. An early one from way back when was Sheeraz Haji, who was the CEO of the startup GetActive that I worked for. He was the person that first pushed and guided me to grow from an individual contributor to a sales leader.

The first real sales VP I ever worked for was a gentleman named Randy Potts and Convio. He was big on team culture and he was one of the first people that taught me the value of a positive team culture and trying to cultivate all the qualities that you want people to have in terms of work ethic, positivity and persistence. Even today, I really try to create a culture where everybody wants to be part of the team and I think that’s important.

Most recently today I really look up to Blackbaud’s CEO Mike Gianoni. His goal is for Blackbaud not only to be one of the best companies serving nonprofits in the philanthropic sector, but he also wants Blackbaud to be one of the best cloud companies in the world. As I look to grow into not only a sales leader but a business leader obviously I’m trying to soak up all I can from Mike.

Fred Diamond: What are some of the things you look for when you’re hiring sales professionals to be on your team?

Chris Krackeler: You look for people that are authentic, hardworking, people that can listen, people that are intellectually curious not just about features and functions of your solutions on the surface but really want to understand client need and how we can help their businesses or their non for profit businesses work more efficiently.

Fred Diamond: What are the two biggest challenges you face today as a sales leader?

Chris Krackeler: I think externally, one is adopting to a tech buyer and a SaaS environment. What I mean by that is people would quip, “Well, you never get fired for buying IBM” and I think today in this day and age a lot has changed especially in the world of SaaS where it’s so easy to demo or do a test run or a trial of a solution. As a result, I think the buyer can be swayed by sizzle more than substance at times. It’s easy to get excited about our product feature, our user interface and sometimes the buyer is less interested in engaging in a multi-week, in-depth discovery session.
I think it’s our job as sales professionals to cut through that, to be consultative, to add value and really engage our clients and prospective clients in a way to help them think through and identify how they can most be successful. Often times, that’s a Blackbaud solution but not always. Sometimes a competitor might have the best answer or sometimes it’s a combination of Blackbaud solutions and a competitor. As long as we add value to the conversation, help our clients think and help them really identify what’s going to best serve their needs then I feel like we’re equipping ourselves to overcome at least that challenge.

Fred Diamond: You mentioned before acquisition and retention. Is that what your team and you are thinking about as you work with your customers or are there other things that drive IT buyers in a not for profit space?

Chris Krackeler: Outside of IT there’s a number of different business functions at a nonprofit. Fundraising folks that bring in the money are very much focused on acquisition and retention. People that do policy or advocacy might be more focused on awareness, impressions, moving the needle on a nonprofits policy issues. There’s people that work on the mission management side, so think of the Red Cross. They’re delivering blood to people in need or a local homeless shelter, they’re providing shelter for people and they’re focused on outcomes and how many people they can serve. Another challenge we have is nonprofit businesses are quite diverse and we’ve got a large `of solutions that we offer and it can be hard keeping our team up to speed on all the various lines of business that we serve.

Fred Diamond: Was there a second challenge that you had?

Chris Krackeler: I think that’s part of the second challenge, that enablement and doing that in a way that doesn’t eat up too much time. I’m a big studier – aficionado would be a strong word – but I really study and take sales enablement seriously. I think one of the challenges we have is a lot of information can come at the sales rep, bits and pieces of it all the time and we try to filter that, avoid some of the noise and schedule two deeper enablement sessions per month on a single topic. Then we always want to measure the outcome of the enablement that we do and a KPI for that measurement is usually pipeline generation. Again, long winded way of saying to challenge, to keep people very functional, able to have thorough discovery discussions across a lot of different solution areas and to do that in a way that also gives them enough time to sell.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’ve worked at Convio, you’ve worked at GetActive, now you’re the VP of nonprofit sales at Blackbaud. Why don’t you take us back to the #1 specific sales success or win from your career you’re most proud of?

Chris Krackeler: It’s hard to narrow it down to one, but something that jumps out way back in time, 15-16 years ago in my mid 20’s, maybe even a little bit more than that is the first enterprise nonprofit that had the goal of growing to a million people in their online community. They chose our startup to help power said online community and for me it was two feelings. I remember that elation of knowing with this big opportunity closing we were helping our company turn a corner and grow to that next level from startup perhaps to small company, but still a step. Also pride in that first big sale and knowing that I can do this, I can make it as an AA.

Fred Diamond: Curiously Chris, how often do you engage with your customers in non-sales related activities? Do you go to functions, do you try to meet them just to talk or do you find yourself mainly just focusing on the sale side when you deal with your customers?

Chris Krackeler: What a great question. I would say definitely monthly, I wish it were weekly or more frequent. Yes, our clients tend to have big functions and it’s great when I get an opportunity to attend a gala. I was at Autism Speaks big event back this past November and it’s always a pleasure to be able to participate as a donor to some of the nonprofits that we serve. I’ve participated in Susan Komen’s walks and their runs, I’ve participated in that regard. It’s great to be able to participate, I wish I could do it weekly, it’s probably more monthly.

Fred Diamond: Again Chris, before we take a break and listen to one of our sponsors, you are a poli-sci major, your first job interview wasn’t even for a job in sales but did you ever question being in sales? You’ve been a sales leader for 20 years now. Do you ever think to yourself, “You know what? It’s too hard, it’s just not for me, I should have gone to law school.” What do you think?

Chris Krackeler: Honestly, no. I’ve never questioned the career, I’ve been very fortunate, I’ve been able to work with great people and great companies. I’ve questioned moments, there’s been hard weeks or hard months or quarters but I’ve never questioned the career.

Fred Diamond: Chris, what’s the most important thing you want to get across to the sales professionals listening around the globe to help them take their career to the next level?

Chris Krackeler: #1 thing is listen. I think most every AE can talk and give a pitch for why their product or solution is good but not every AE can really listen and understand a client’s challenges. That would be one tip and then take listening to the next level. I’ve been fortunate to get a lot of positive feedback in my career, but I’ve also gotten my fair share of constructive criticism. I think being able to listen to that, the good, the bad, the ugly and grow from it is a way that’s helped me continue to grow and evolve my career.

Fred Diamond: Listening comes up not infrequently on the Sales Game Changers podcast. What are some tips that you can give to the Sales Game Changers listening to today’s podcast to help them become better at listening? Some things that you’ve done, that you’ve learned to do so they can take the skill to the next level?

Chris Krackeler: Another great question. One practical tip is to practice, don’t talk, don’t even think about trying to talk until the person you’re in a conversation with has finished their sentence. Often times we find our brain trying to respond even before the person’s done, try to train yourself to just listen quietly and make sure their whole thought or sentence is complete before you interject with your wisdom.

Fred Diamond: That’s very powerful, are you good at that?

Chris Krackeler: [Laughs] it depends who you ask I think.

Fred Diamond: The hardest thing especially when you’re young in sales or new in sales is you have this list of things that you feel you have to get across. Even if you’ve done some research into your customer, you’re sitting there dying to get this point across, if you will but I like that. Try to wait for them to say what they want to say. It’s more important for them to say what they want to say, don’t you think?

Chris Krackeler: I do, absolutely.

Fred Diamond: Chris, what are some things you do to sharpen your saw and stay fresh?

Chris Krackeler: Read, ask questions, take opportunities to learn other aspects of your company’s business. Don’t just understand sales but try to understand product development and marketing and lots of other things. Stay genuinely curious and even today, now, right here I’m sharpening my saw by being on your show.

Fred Diamond: You mentioned reading and I don’t like to put people on the spot but what are some things that you read?

Chris Krackeler: I like business books more than sales books, I think sometimes a sales book tends to be a little too formulaic. Whether it’s Malcolm Gladwell or any books on leadership, I really enjoy.

Fred Diamond: What’s a major initiative you’re working on right now to ensure your continued success?

Chris Krackeler: Last year’s big initiative was AE prospecting and pipeline building and getting AE’s to take more pride in developing their own pipelines. This year’s big initiative is helping our sales professionals get to power earlier in the sale cycle.

Fred Diamond: Again, your customer is a not for profit and Blackbaud’s been around for a while servicing that particular marketplace. Do you get access to your customers, is that a challenge these days?

Chris Krackeler: No, I think Blackbaud is a great brand and is a recognizable name. I think it’s easy for us to open doors initially, but like anything it’s not always simple or easy to work your way up to the most senior executives, especially if you’re engaged in a longer or more expensive sale cycle.

Fred Diamond: Chris, sales is hard like we just talked about. The good thing for Blackbaud is you have a name in the marketplace, you’ve been servicing that market for a while, you develop solutions specifically for their particular marketplace. But people don’t return your phone calls or your emails, they think they might know all the answers, they can get them from the internet in a lot of cases. Why have you continued? What is it about sales as a career that has kept you going?

Chris Krackeler: It’s my teammates. I’ve been fortunate to have great colleagues, sales directors and other AE’s that work for me. They’re the people that make it happen and without a great team, sales can get lonely or frustrating. I’ve been fortunate, I’ve had great people help pick me up and deliver results.

Fred Diamond: That’s pretty powerful. As they say, you can go fast by yourself, you can go far as part of the team. I don’t think it was Aristotle who said that.

Chris Krackeler: [Laughs] it’s an African proverb, I think.

Fred Diamond: It’s powerful and I can’t remember who brought that up, too. That’s come up a couple different times. I want to thank Chris Krackeler, he’s given us some great insights, he’s the VP of Not for Profit Sales at Blackbaud. Chris, why don’t you give us one final thought to inspire the Sales Game Changers listening to today’s podcast around the globe?

Chris Krackeler: If you remember nothing else, remember the value of listening, being authentic and having fun.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 166: Blackbaud’s Chris Krackeler Says This Aristotelian Lesson Helps Motivate His Sales Teams to Excel first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.