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EPISODE 208: Hospitality Sales and Marketing Expert Bob Gilbert Says Getting These Insights from Customers Can Swiftly Grow Your Career and Influence

BOB’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Sales professionals will always be successful if they leverage the insights they get from customers into value for them, for their customers and for their company. Salespeople are in a unique position to leverage that knowledge to help senior management in their organizations. In the hotel industry that gives them influence and the ability to influence design and capital expenditures at hotels. Leverage that and you’re always going to position yourself well within any organization.”

Bob Gilbert is the President and CEO of the Hospitality, Sales and Marketing Association International, known as the HSMAI.

We’ve interviewed other sales leaders from the hospitality market such as Frank Passanante (Hilton), Telesa Via (Kimpton Hotels), and Melissa Riley (Destination DC).

Bob can be found on LinkedIn here.

Bob Gilbert: HSMAI’s mission simply is to help hotels and their partners grow their revenue through sales, marketing and revenue optimization. That’s really what we do as an association. I’ve been here at the association for 24 years but I think something unique about me is in my 37 year hospitality career I’ve had two jobs. I worked for a hotel management company initially and then I’ve worked for the Association ever since.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about the HSMAI, tell us what you offer today and tell us what excites you about that.

Bob Gilbert: We’re primarily an educational association for hotel, sales marketing and revenue management professionals around the world, but we’re also in the sales business if you think about it. The business model of nonprofit associations like HSMAI is really predicated on selling three things: we sell memberships, we sell registrations and we sell sponsorships and in nonprofit world, those are the things that really make an association happen. We bring together all of our members and their stakeholders to really talk about the issues that they’re facing in their business and that’s what associations do.

Fred Diamond: We’re broadcasting today’s show from just outside of Washington DC, it’s in Northern Virginia. As a matter of fact, Hilton’s headquarters are about maybe 500 yards away from us here today and of course, a lot of other great hotel brands like Marriott is in the area and some others as well. We have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe, you mentioned that you serve sales marketing and revenue. Could you tell us about each of those roles in the hospitality space and what someone does if they’re in sales, what someone does if they’re in marketing and what someone does if they’re on the revenue side?

Bob Gilbert: Absolutely, Fred. We have members around the world as well that represent hotel brands, management companies and ownership groups, those are our three primary categories of stakeholders and most of those company types will have individuals that really focus on the discipline of sales, marketing or revenue management, and as you go up in the ranks of hotel companies there’ usually SVPs, EVPs and C-level executives focused on all of those commercial services.

The sales professionals in the hotel industry typically are responsible for actually getting new business into the company or into the hotels, the marketing people are usually responsible for the branding and a lot of the loyalty programs, the public relations initiatives that are built around hotels and hotel companies, and the revenue optimization professionals are usually responsible for the analytics and the strategy driving the pricing and the distribution decisions as it relates to how business gets booked at hotels. The convergence or the interdependence on those relations in a hotel company is really vital and that’s really where HSMAI comes in as an educational source for all of those disciplines.

Fred Diamond: I’m excited to talk to you from the two perspectives, from being in sales from an association. We’ve got a handful of people on the Sales Game Changers podcast that are also curious about some of the challenges facing your members as well and things that they’re dealing with today because again, we have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe. Tell us a little more about the HSMAI and what do you physically offer your members? What do you physically do to bring in sales for your organization?

Bob Gilbert: It’s interesting you talk about some of the challenges that the industry is facing. HSMAI has actually been around for 90 years. When the association was founded in 1927, the big topic then was talking about the ethics and convention sales promotion and how sales professionals needed to step up their game in terms of bringing group business into hotels. For the last 5 to 10 years, the major issues that our members are dealing with have really all had to do with the online marketplace. How do you manage distribution, how do you manage the intermediaries that are in the space whether it’s for a piece of group business that’s coming to a hotel or whether it’s the advent of the online travel agencies that now a lot of consumers use to book their business online? Or whether it’s even the major search engines like Google and the meta search engines that have really changed the game in terms of the shopping funnels for consumers looking for a hotel.

Some of the specific things that we do, we have strategy conferences, we have a portfolio of executive round tables that we produce for C-level executives and marketing and sales and revenue optimization and loyalty. We also have certification programs in the areas of digital marketing and in revenue optimization as well as business acumen, we also have certification programs for students and hospitality schools around the world that really make them ready to go directly into the hotel industry. That helps address one of the talent challenges that’s facing our industry like many others. There’s a variety of things we do, but I think the biggest thing is we have three signature strategy conferences: one in sales, one in marketing, one in revenue optimization and we do these regionally around the globe. You find them here in the Americas region, Europe, Middle East and the Asia pack and that’s really where the industry convenes to talk about the issues that’s keeping them up at night and be educated on the latest trends that are going to help them be more successful in their jobs.

Fred Diamond: Just curiously, again we have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe, most of our listeners are in the sales space. You mentioned that you service the sales, the marketing and the revenue management side – are those three distinct professions? Do people jump back and forth, potentially or you’re in revenue management, you’re in marketing or you’re in sales?

Bob Gilbert: We address them from an education perspective as three very distinctly unique disciplines and we really respect the science of each discipline, but the second part of your question is spot on. There is a lot of convergence between those disciplines and people do go back and forth across the disciplines or in a career path in any of our members we may see individuals that cross over from hotel sales to destination marketing organization sales or another sector of the hospitality traveler tourism industry. It’s a massive industry so there’s a lot of cross pollination and a lot of those skill sets are portable, so people can take sales, marketing or revenue optimization skills to another hospitality industry vertical, that works as well. We see both, people staying in that discipline as well as moving across the disciplines or staying in the discipline and going to another industry.

Fred Diamond: How about you, how did you first get into sales as a career? Again, you’ve been running this organization for 24 years so like you said in the very beginning, you’re in sales. You’re trying to get members and you’re trying to get sponsors and things like that so tell us about you, how did you first into sales as a career?

Bob Gilbert: I first started in sales, actually. I went to hotel school as did Frank and my of the people that get into the industry. There are hundreds of hospitality schools in colleges around the globe, I’m a graduate of one of those and during my summers I spent exploring different career opportunities within hotels whether it was food and beverage or marketing or sales. I found my calling in sales, I think the epiphany moment for me was when I realized that the salespeople are really the individuals that are #1 closest to the customer and #2, it’s where the revenue comes in the business. If you have those two attributes or you’re a specialist in those two attributes, everybody pays attention to you and you’re always going to be at the frontline of wherever the industry trend is going. That really captivated my attention and I had a variety of sales and marketing positions with this hotel management company I was with and then I crossed over to the association world basically doing the same thing I was doing in the hotel business but now doing it for the industry at large.

Fred Diamond: What were some of the key lessons that you took away from some of your first few sales jobs?

Bob Gilbert: I think there was a number of lessons. One is always ask a lot of questions and two is be persistent. Those are the two things that stand out in my mind. I think good sales professionals are the ones that are good listeners and they can really understand what a customer is telling them, and making sure they’re aligning those customer needs and expectations with what it is they can deliver. In the hotel business we’re selling a service, we’re not selling a product so that service is really the promise to deliver and you have to really understand the customer needs at a significant level of detail. Sometimes those needs are very complex to be able to be a good, trustworthy salesperson.

Fred Diamond: Again, you represent the hospitality marketplace. What would you tell someone who’s thinking about going into a career of sales and they’re considering multiple things? Brands, food-beverage, hospitality. Why would you encourage someone to go into the hospitality space if they want to be successful in sales?

Bob Gilbert: I think if they want to be successful, hospitality is such a wide open industry, it’s massive, it’s growing globally at a very significant pace. There’s a societal trend that we’re seeing globally where people feel they have this right to travel and everybody wants to travel so the demand for travel will continue to be high for a significant period of time. That’s almost in spite of any economic waves we see around the globe, people are still traveling so the opportunity to be a sales specialist in an industry that continues to grow is huge. Also, it’s not just hotels that are part of that whole travel and hospitality sector, you think about the breadth and depth of the travel industry, it’s hotels and airlines and marketing companies and cruise lines and destination marketing organizations and travel agencies. There are so many sales skill sets that are portable across all these industry verticals and you can find them in basically any market. It gives any individual that wants the autonomy in a career path that sustainable but also wants to go anywhere geographically in the world. It’s the best of both worlds.

Fred Diamond: You’ve interfaced with tens of thousands of sales professionals, I’m going to guess, in the hospitality space. We have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe, they’re thinking about possibly moving into other careers or pursuing different types of sales, different types of industries. What are some of the characteristics or attributes of the great sales professionals that you’ve seen in the hospitality space? What are some of the personal characteristics that they have? Again, you mentioned asking questions and persistence but what are some other things that you’ve seen that would make someone really good to be in sales in the hospitality space?

Bob Gilbert: It’s a great question, Fred. It’s interesting, so many people that are doing a job search, the #1 thing they say is, “I want to be in the industry because I like people.” That’s such an overused colloquialism in the hotel industry, but the reality is you’ve got to have the persistence and the personality that’s going to be outgoing and forthright in terms of your drive. If you’re going to bring in business for your company, you’ve got to be a self-starter, there’s no question about it, that’s one of the key attributes that anybody needs to be successful in sales in this industry or otherwise. This is not a passive keyboard based type of a data entry job, if you will, somebody has to have the drive, they’ve got to have the willingness to go out and talk to people, understand their needs, be really good at questioning, really good at listening. Those are the people that can really take the information they’re cleaning from all the different people they’re talking to and convert that into business for their hotel or their hotel company.

Fred Diamond: Bob, tell us what you’re an expert in, tell us about your specific area of expertise.

Bob Gilbert: I would say there’s a couple different areas that stand out from both my hotel career as well as my association career. I’d say one would just be persistence because if something doesn’t work the first time then keep on trying. I think the other thing is the ability to be a strategic planner. In the association world you’re always selling but you’re asking questions, in my case to our board of directors in terms of really defining the direction of the organization. My role as the staff exec, you’re really the facilitator of taking all these insights from these leaders that serve in governing positions for the association and convert that into a direction for the association.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’ve been running this organization for 24 years, you were in sales before that, you must have come across some great mentors along the way. Why don’t you tell us about an impactful sales career mentor or two that have really helped you take your career to the next level?

Bob Gilbert: Listeners are probably going to laugh when I say this, but early in my career I listened to tapes. Remember the old days of cassette tapes? I remember people like Brian Tracy and Zig Ziglar. I had a boss who also was one of my mentors, he always gave us the tapes, “Listen to these in your car, listen to them on the way to work.” Now, of course it’s all podcasts, right? But in the olden days that’s what we did and those are some of the people that I remember well and sometimes names like that would come and speak at our sales conferences at our company and those were all inspirational and we learned.

In the hotel industry there was a gentleman early on by the name of Tom McCarthy who was actually a past President of HSMAI and I saw him do a number of training programs a years ago. Tom was one of the hotel sales icons, if you will, back in the 1970s in the hotel industry and was a Senior Exec at Marriott for many years before he started his own training company. Tom has been a mentor to thousands over the last number of decades in the hotel industry. Then there’s a couple of bosses I’ve had along the way that certainly have left their lasting impression on things that I learned from them.

Fred Diamond: What do hotels sell? What are some of the main things that someone who’s in sales for a hotel either for a great facility or for the entire brand, what are some of the things that they physically sell that help generate revenue for hotels? Just put in a little context for the listeners.

Bob Gilbert: The #1 way to think of what a hotel has to sell is who buys and what’s the purpose of the trip. Ultimately the hotel is selling a guest experience, the biggest revenue stream for most hotels and hotel companies is rooms and rooms are bought by three different buckets. It’s either meetings and convention business, there’s business travelers or there’s leisure business. If you’re a salesperson in one of those three markets or you’re a director of sales for all those markets, basically you’re going to be a subject matter expert in all the different sources of business that drive business in those three primary types. I’m generalizing because there are multiple channels but typically, business for hotels is generated through groups, leisure or meetings and conventions.

Outside of guest rooms, then you have all source of ancillary services whether it’s banquet, food and beverage, your restaurants, your spa, your golf. When you get to the resort business in many cases the golf and spa and food and beverage business represents as much revenue as the rooms business does. Really you’re selling on a contracted basis or on transaction basis the promise to deliver an experience at the hotel or within the hotel company.

Fred Diamond: Let’s talk about some of the challenges. What are the two biggest challenges that you face as a sales leader?

Bob Gilbert: I think the biggest challenge that sales leaders are facing right now is really the intermediation and this is happening across all the disciplines that we work with in sales and marketing and revenue optimization. Certainly we all live in an online world today and have for the last 20 years at least, but the implications of the online marketplace have really changed the role so sales leaders have had to adapt to what that means. If there’s now an intermediary between you and the meeting planner or if there’s an online travel agency that the consumer is shopping at before they call you directly, that changes where you are connecting with customers in the sales funnel. What started that customer journey, do you begin to connect with what we consider a prospect or a lead? Some are delivered right to your door but it may not be the highest quality lead that you always wanted. Depending upon what your market is and where you are in the company, it depends on where you’re going to work in that sales funnel. Where we work in the funnel has changed dramatically because a lot of the times the online industry now is delivering it to you. Good examples of even what Google and meta search companies have done for leisure travelers and business travelers, it’s significantly different how they buy and how they shop for hotels than they did even 10 years ago.

Fred Diamond: How about for you, just curiously? You’re running a large association here where you service the hospitality marketplace, what’s the biggest challenge that you face as the sales leader of this organization?

Bob Gilbert: I think the biggest challenge that we face as an association is not unique to HSMAI, it really has to do with business in general today. It’s really the time poverty that so many of our members around the world have, everybody is super busy as there’s more and more pressure put on individuals from their companies, their ownership groups and people have more and more responsibility sometimes with the same or even less resources. Our members are constantly dealing in a state of change, it could be a merger and acquisition that has implications on their company, it could be merger and acquisitions of their customers but there’s a huge amount of pressure to stay on top of every single issue that’s changing up to the minute because it may have an implication on your ability to convert a piece of business or actually perform or bring value to your business.

Fred Diamond: What’s the greatest sales success or win from your career you’re most proud of?

Bob Gilbert: I’m really proud of the progress we’ve made here at HSMAI during the tenure I’ve been here. We’ve been through probably three major reorganizations of the association, most recently within the last 5 years we’ve totally changed the mix of membership where today 62% of our members come from the corporate offices of hotel brands, management companies and ownership groups. 20 to 25 years ago our primary point of contact and our point of relevance used to be for the individual at the hotel unit level.

Now we still have a lot of members from the unit level that have a fantastic chapter infrastructure around the world, but that’s primarily where those hotel sales professionals at individual hotels engage. The value proposition we’ve been able to create in the last 5 to 10 years has really been at the corporate office in addition to the unit level and that’s really been a game changer for us, if you will.

Fred Diamond: I’m just curious also, before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors, now there are so many different layers of hotels and most of the brands  compete at the very basic level and of course the high end level. I was looking at probably a company that’s one of your members and I was looking at their brands not too long ago. It was almost like 15 different brands of hotels, is that a challenge for the industry as well where a customer may not understand the differentiation between the various levels but the hotel company is trying to market different levels specifically to different types of customers?

Bob Gilbert: That’s a great question, Fred. Internally and externally that’s called brand proliferation. The brand extensions that may of the big global brands now, it’s more than 15, you may have 30. I think the largest global brand has 36 different sub brands in their portfolio but I think the strategy there is really how they leverage all their consumers across to all their brands, how they tie them together through a loyalty program.

At the end of the day the major brands are looking to move market share and they can do that through their loyalty programs across to all brands, but what that also does is it gives the consumer the ability to pick from within a family of a global brand based upon the purpose of the trip. If you’re taking your daughter to college in a tertiary village where you just need to select service property for one night versus where you’re going to go on your wedding anniversary, big celebration, high end luxury resort, versus when you need a practical commercial hotel on a business trip and a major market. You may be able to have three very different trip experiences and three very different product types but all within one global brand.

That’s ultimately what the big brands are looking for. The other in the spectrum, you’ve got a phenomenal option of independent and boutique hotels that can also provide a fantastic experience. The wonderful thing the internet does is it created a level playing field for all of them from the sales and marketing perspective.

Fred Diamond: Before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors, did you ever question being in sales? Again, you run the Hospitality, Sales and Marketing Association International. Did you ever say to yourself, “You know what? It’s too hard, it’s really just not for me”?

Bob Gilbert: Never. I think it’s a function of what makes the world go round. There’s an old adage, nothing happens till somebody sells something so as long as you want to be at the top of that funnel and you want to keep moving forward, somebody’s got to start selling something somewhere.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’ve probably stayed in thousands of hotels. I also travel a lot as well and for the major brands, the one thing I’ve noticed over the last couple of years is that the quality has really improved dramatically. Is that because of the nature of the competition, because there’s so much competing properties now? It just seems that at the most of the major brands I hardly ever see flaws from the front desk to the room to the restaurants.

Bob Gilbert: You’re right, there’s a tremendous amount of pressure for competition these days, no question about it but I think it also speaks to the fact that there’s that critical need to have that brand differentiation so that you know what’s brand A versus brand B versus brand C. Certainly the amount of time hotel companies spend on their design and their brand standards and their construction and their employee service training, all those are critical attributes to being successful today.

[Sponsor break]

Fred Diamond: Bob, what’s the most important thing you want to get across to the selling professionals listening around the globe to help them take their careers to the next level?

Bob Gilbert: I would say to get to the next level, be persistent and be at the top of your game all the time. If you’re thinking about changing industries or you’re looking for a job or you feel like you’re a little bit in a rut, get some experience, always be asking questions, always be putting your best foot forward, always make time for prospecting, always find one or two mentors. It’s a variety of things, depending upon the situation that you’re in and what you’re looking for that may be a path forward for you, but it never hurts to get a mentor and some outside perspective. That’s going to give you some candid and objective feedback on what your strengths and weaknesses are.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us about one of your selling habits that has led to your continued success?

Bob Gilbert: I tend to probe all the time. I’m clearly always asking questions to learn about different perspectives whether it’s direct or indirectly related to what I’m trying to sell, it gives me more insights and enables you to develop a relationship, and I think through relationships is how you build trust. At the end of the day, if you don’t have trust you’re never going to be able to move forward.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us about a major initiative you’re working on today to ensure your continued success?

Bob Gilbert: I think one of the initiatives we’re working on is a major re-envisioning project for a portfolio of assets that the association has. We have assets that have programs and conferences and events that we’ve run in some cases for decades. I think the ability to re-envision how do you always keep them fresh, how do you keep them growing and how you throw it off the competition that may be there requires us always to think differently about how we produce those events.

In one particular case we’ve got six assets and we’ve put together virtual focus groups for each asset, asked a lot of questions, we’re now in the process of digesting all that input and out of that we’ll be coming up with recommendations and solutions for how to continually tweak those assets to make sure we stay at the top of our game.

Fred Diamond: Bob, you’ve given us some great insights today, a lot of great ideas for selling professionals on how they can be successful. Before I ask you for your final thought, sales is hard. We talked about a lot of the challenges, you even started off the conversation talking about how hard it is to find great people to move into sales. That’s been one of the key themes of the Sales Game Changers podcast over the 200+ interviews that we’ve done, the challenges that sales leaders face and acquiring, retaining, motivating and elevating top tier talent. As a matter of fact, we alluded to Frank Passanante over at Hilton, when I asked him that question, “What are the two biggest challenges you face as a sales leader?” he said, “Everybody is faced with hiring and retaining and motivating great talent” so it’s table stakes today. Sales is hard and we talked about some of the challenges that are facing your particular industry, the hospitality industry. People don’t return your phone calls or your emails, you talked about time poverty. Why have you continued? What is it about sales as a career that has kept you going?

Bob Gilbert: It’s interesting, I used to have a boss that gave the analogy that no matter what the hotel type is, there’s always a customer for everybody and I still believe that. I believe that prospecting is ultimately the key attribute that will keep anybody moving forward and being successful. There is a customer for everything and for everybody, it’s just a matter of if you have the right prospect list and you’re persistent about prospecting the right list, you will find the right customer for whatever it is you have that you’re selling. That’s where that persistence and that questioning come into play from my perspective. If you think it’s hard, it is hard but that prospecting is what will differentiate you from the pack in terms of all your other peers out there and when you get the wins, celebrate the wins from the prospecting.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you give us a final thought to inspire out listeners around the globe today?

Bob Gilbert: I would say sales professionals will always be successful if they leverage the insights they get from customers into value for them, for their customers and for their company. I think salespeople are in a unique position to really leverage that knowledge to more senior management in their organizations. In the hotel industry that gives them influence and the ability to influence design and capital expenditures at hotels because they have direct insight from the customers. Leverage that and you’re always going to position yourself well within any organization.

Fred Diamond: That’s a great point, particularly in your industry you’re always dealing with customers. They’re not remote, they’re not somewhere in procurement, deep in some office somewhere, you’re dealing face to face, you’re also delivering the product, like you said, once it’s sold. Bob, I want to thank you again. Do you want to say something else?

Bob Gilbert: I was just going to say, every organization that you work for needs to have a constant communication stream to the top of all this customer behavior, preferences and trends. Without this, companies cannot evolve and grow and I think sales is a critical piece of that whole process.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 208: Hospitality Sales and Marketing Expert Bob Gilbert Says Getting These Insights from Customers Can Swiftly Grow Your Career and Influence first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

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EPISODE 192: Senior Vice President, Hilton Worldwide Sales – Americas, Frank Passanante Shares How a Coaching Mindset Has Helped the Hospitality Leader Become Fortune’s Best Company to Work for

FRANK’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Sales is a noble profession. Embrace a coaching mindset and also embrace the idea that everyone should always be learning. If you embrace this idea of an always learning mindset and you want to be better tomorrow than you are today, you’ll have success and you’ll have success in sales.”

Frank Passanante is the Senior VP for Hilton Worldwide Sales – America’s Hilton, and he’s been with Hilton for 28 years.

We conducted the interview at Hilton’s Global Headquarters in Tysons Corner, VA.

Find Frank on LinkedIn!

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us a little more about you that we need to know?

Frank Passanante: First thanks, Fred. It’s really exciting to be a part of the podcast so I appreciate you taking the time and joining us here at Hilton HQ. As you said, I’ve been with Hilton for 28 years, so the better part of my professional career. I’m originally from New York, I ended up in the south at Florida State University where I studied hospitality sales and when I graduated FSU, I had my first hotel job with Hilton in sales at the Hilton at Walt Disney World Village.

For the last 28 or so years I’ve had a variety of sales leadership and sales management opportunities and today I’m sitting here, I’m at Hilton Worldwide. I’m at our corporate headquarters and I have the distinct pleasure of leading a team of about 300 sales professionals. They’re all based here in the Americas, we represent the 6,000 hotels that we are across 17 brands and 117 countries and we work with our customers here in the Americans as shepherds for those 6,000 hotels.

Fred Diamond: Again, we have listeners all around the globe, you mentioned 17 brands. Tell us some of the brands just to make sure everybody knows what is it you represent.

Frank Passanante: Everyone knows Hilton, one of the most recognizable brand names out there but Doubletree, Waldorf Astoria, Conrad Hotels, Embassy Suites, Homewood Suites, Hampton Inn’s, many of us stay in Hampton’s at soccer tournaments, volleyball tournaments so there’s 2,500 of those across the globe today. Many of these brands are global brands, meaning they’re not just here in the Americas and that’s a huge opportunity for us relative to pipeline and growth.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about specifically what you sell and tell us what excites you about that.

Frank Passanante: First, what excites me about what I do is I work for Hilton. When your company’s mission is to be the most hospitable company in the world and when your company’s vision is to fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality, it doesn’t get much better than that. What I have the opportunity to do is to represent Hilton in our 17 distinct award-winning brands to customers here in the America’s to support them with their needs. Meaning, we as sales professionals serve our customers and we help them find Hilton-specific solutions.

The backyard barbecue often goes like this, “Frank, you work for a hotel company. Do you actually sell buildings?” and I’m like, “No. What I specifically sell is, have you ever attended a conference? Have you ever traveled for business as a corporate traveler? Have you ever attended a wedding? Have you ever gone to a soccer tournament or a volleyball tournament or a swim meet on a weekend? In each of those situations in life, there is someone in the hotel sale side that is talking to a corporate travel manager, talking to a sales executive, talking to an association executive director, working in a B to B situation with customers who set those arrangements up. That’s what we do, that’s what we sell and that’s what my teams support.”

Fred Diamond: You mentioned the Hilton mission. Can you tell us a little more about that? Again, the company has been around for what, a hundred years? Over a hundred years?

Frank Passanante: Yes, May of 1919, so one hundred years ago is when Hilton was founded. This is our centennial year, our anniversary year, it’s been an exciting year of celebration as we’ve been looking back at not only all of the innovation that Hilton has pioneered over the years but really a look forward to the next hundred and our continued focus on innovation. Our mission is to be the most hospitable company in the world, it’s really that simple. Many of us who’ve been with Hilton or in this industry for so long, that’s what’s attracted us to it from the onset, is hospitality. That’s what makes this business and that’s what makes sales in this business specifically a little different than selling other things because we are in the hospitality business.

Fred Diamond: Talking about experiences, you mentioned the Waldorf Astoria. I used to stay at that hotel frequently and I was once in the elevator with the actress Brooke Shields. That is one of my most vivid memories of the Waldorf Astoria, it’s one of the highlights of my life. That was very cool.

Frank Passanante: That’s fantastic. The Waldorf Astoria is the greatest of them all, that’s what Conrad Hilton called it when he had aspirations to purchase it. It is now, Waldorf Astoria, one of our distinctive brands, it’s not just a hotel. With that flagship, New York Waldorf Astoria as the flagship, there’s now 32 Waldorf Astoria’s and growing, huge pipeline all across the globe. In fact, we just added a new one last week in Los Cabos, Mexico.

Fred Diamond: Let’s go back to the beginning of your career. How did you first get into sales as a career?

Frank Passanante: I was at Florida State, I knew that I wanted to study hospitality so I was studying hospitality and quite honestly, I had a leaning towards the culinary side of the business. I thought I wanted to be in the restaurant business or specifically, a chef. I also got intrigued by some marketing courses so I ended up also pursuing a marketing degree. Along the way in my studies, I was introduced to one of the student organizations, the Student Chapter of HSMA, the Hotel Sales and Marketing Association and I became very active in HSMA. It was really through that exposure and through some of the industry exposure that organization afforded me as a student that I really started to set my sight on sales and sales specifically in hotels.

It was about junior, senior year that I had very firmly dedicated to myself that I would be in sales in hotels. My first gig was while I was still in school and it was the Howard Johnson, the HoJo capital center in Tallahassee, Florida and I was selling the banquet room and setting up corporate travel some local companies. When I graduated I ended up with a great job with an opportunity to join an organization that I wanted to work for, and it was in sales.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’re Senior VP for Hilton Worldwide Sales – America’s Hilton. Have you done every job in the hotel industry to get to this point? I’m just curious.

Frank Passanante: My concentration has been largely in sales and events. I grew up in what one would say a more traditional path. My first job in a hotel was a junior level salesperson selling small meetings but also servicing small meetings. We used to call it Book & Cook, you didn’t just sell something, you actually had to service it. You had to work with the customer, with the guest on the logistics and from beginning to end until they checked out. I then progressed through sales management roles where I took on bigger territories, different accounts, moved then into sales leadership in different roles, moved from hotel to hotel, to hotel to hotel which is what we do. Ultimately, landed in the Washington DC area back in the mid 90’s where I was the Director of Sales and Marketing for the Washington Hilton. Then moved after that into regional roles, so I oversaw portfolios of hotels.

Fred Diamond: What are some of the key lessons you learned from some of those first few sales jobs?

Frank Passanante: That’s an easy one. I learned very early on in sales to talk less and listen more. When you’re young, when you’re energetic, when you’re representing a fantastic brand you are uber excited to tell the world, but one of the things that I’ve learned very early on and continue to reinforce with all of our sales professionals is there is immense power in the art of active listening. That’s something you don’t necessarily know when you first get into the business, but you learn over time as a sales professional that talking less, listening more is the key to just about everything.

Fred Diamond: I’ve got a question for you. That comes up frequently on the Sales Game Changers podcast, to be a better listener. Some people mention the 66% solution, you have two ears, one mouth, use them in that order. Frank, what are some things that you’ve done, that you’ve learned over your career to help make you a better listener that we can pass on to the listeners today?

Frank Passanante: It’s about really being deliberate about the understanding of what active listening really is. Active listening is not waiting for your turn to speak, it’s actually engaging with whom you’re talking to, acknowledging that you’re hearing what they’re saying and then responsibly responding to them in a way that allows them to understand that you’ve heard what matters most to them. It’s being deliberate, it is a discipline and what we say is active listening, great questioning skills, this all sits up under the Socratic Method. This is Socratic selling, many of us who’ve been through sales training courses for many years understand it. Socratic selling is essentially a discipline that really embraces active listening through great questioning to better understand a customer’s needs. Being deliberate in understanding that is probably the best tip that I can give someone.

Fred Diamond: Let’s talk a little more about you. Why don’t you tell us what you’re an expert in? Tell us a little more about your specific area of brilliance.

Frank Passanante: I’ve been known as someone who drives performance significantly through motivating teams to want to perform so we call it performance excellence. I’d say that what I am most passionate about and what I firmly believe in is what I’ll classify as a coaching mindset. I am a huge believer in the power of coaching, the power of great coaches and the power of people being coachable and that mutual commitment that creates truly beta performance, alpha performance, significantly better performance. If I had to characterize what I have really embraced over the last several years is this idea of building out a coaching culture and the power that that coaching culture delivers to the organization.

Fred Diamond: I’m just curious. We have a lot of Sales Game Changers listening around the globe in many different industries and working for many different companies. What would be some of the features of someone who would excel? You talked about coaching, so someone who’s really good who would be working in your organization or in hospitality sales, what are some characteristics that they would have to help them excel?

Frank Passanante: We talked about active listening. Anybody that is going to perform and excel in one of these roles is going to be an active listener. They’re also going to be solution oriented, the idea behind asking great questions, listening attentively is to create Hilton solutions, to serve our customers up with distinct Hilton solutions. They’ve got to be solution oriented, they’ve got to be consultative. In our business you’ve got to be hospitable, there is a price of tea when you’re in the hotel business that you’re not just selling something but there also is the sense that we represent a hotel company, a hospitality company. That does require a certain type of personality, a certain disposition, so to speak that is going to make someone successful or not in our part of the business.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us about an impactful sales career mentor or two and how they influenced your career?

Frank Passanante: Without a doubt, I’ve had a lot of successful or very impactful mentors. It’s really hard for me when I think about this to name specific people. I have been, as I’ve said, 28 years with the company, have progressed through multiple roles over the course of these three decades and it’s only because I’m working in an organization that supports an environment where people can grow and develop, and that’s because I’ve had great coaches. The mentors that have been the most impactful to me are the ones that challenge me the most, that demonstrated to me early on that they were willing to extract the best out of me by being a great coach, but also were the ones that would challenge me and push me into uncomfortable places, that would allow me to self-identify where I needed to grow. There have been so many over the years. That’s how I would characterize them, they are great coaches and they challenged me.

Fred Diamond: We definitely get the flavor here for the coaching culture and the mentoring. Do a lot of people come to you looking to be mentored? I’m going to ask you a follow up question to that. If someone were to come to you and ask for mentoring, how can they put themselves in the best position to be coached or mentored?

Frank Passanante: Yes, people come to me and ask for mentorship and I am happy to do that always. I think that the best advice that I can give anyone is by asking for help, they’ve taken the first step, they’ve demonstrated that they are coachable. Being open-minded, being flexible, being willing to understand where there might be gaps and then actioning around those gaps. That’s often the conversations that I’ll have with someone that I’m mentoring, “What are you trying to accomplish? Where are the gaps in what you’re trying to accomplish? Now let’s talk about what we can do together or what you can do to try to fill some of those gaps.”

Fred Diamond: Frank, what are the two biggest challenges you face today as a sales leader?

Frank Passanante: I’m absolutely certain that nothing I will tell you is something you haven’t heard from other sales leaders. We all struggle with talent acquisition, we all struggle with a whole lot of things, but I’d have to say that one of the things that has really stood out to me as a challenge both for myself and for our teams is what I call the marketplace of time. It really is about managing the enormous amount of priorities and especially in a digital age, in the way that we communicate with our customers both internal stakeholders as well as our external customers. Managing the marketplace of time is really challenging.

We focus on a conversation that we have about really prioritizing to-do’s, the things that sit on that to-do list everyday versus the must-do’s, the things that should live there because they’re going to move you or your organization forward in a meaningful way and ensuring that you don’t let the to-do’s knock the must-do’s off the list. That’s the kind of conversation we have, again, that’s very high level but managing that marketplace of time is really hard.

Fred Diamond: I’ve got to imagine also, the people that you’re selling to, there’s a lot of stress in those jobs especially for having a multi 10,000 person convention, there are so many moving parts, there are so many factors, micro, macro, things that might be out of your control. Is the customer typically stressed? Obviously it’s very demanding, everyone knows when something goes wrong and when something goes right.

Frank Passanante: Without a doubt. I think there are some stats that say on the meeting side of the business that a meeting planner’s role is one of the most stressful occupations out there. So yes, those are customers that some of my teams are working with. Some of my teams are working with procurement professionals, some of my teams are working with corporate travel managers, some of my teams are working with Vice Presidents of Sales. Run the gamut of what those customer external and internal pressures might be. Part of what we need to do is to be able to be there for them, we’re there to serve our customers so part of our managing our marketplace of time is certainly acknowledging that there’s external and internal pressures that our customers are dealing with.

In our roles within Hilton Worldwide Sales specifically, we’re the above property sales organization. At each hotel there might be sales staffs, we work above property so our customers are certainly our travel managers, our meeting planners but we’re also here to serve multiple internal stakeholders. We mentioned we have 17 brands, those brands are relying upon my teams to deliver business into those hotels. The other people within our commercial teams rely upon us. The hotels that we support, they rely upon us every day. Every one of those stakeholders – and we classify 5 or 6 different stakeholder groups – they’re all drawing upon our marketplace of time. It’s about managing that marketplace of time so that we are still delivering what we’re tasked with delivering which is building meaningful connections and driving performance.

Fred Diamond: Marketplace of time. Frank, again you’ve been with Hilton for 28 years, it’s one of the biggest brands, one of the best brands in the world, one of the most well-known brands. You must have had some amazing successes along the way, why don’t you tell us about one of your biggest or most specific sales success or win from your career that you’re most proud of?

Frank Passanante: There have been so many great successes and I can think specifically of the very first sale I had when I first started in Hilton. It was a $25,000 dollar opportunity that I booked, it was a small sales meeting for a pharmaceutical company out of Mexico. Or I can think about the biggest single opportunity that I confirmed which was a $25 million dollar deal, but I got to say that especially in the last many years, my most rewarding successes have been those that involved my teams. It is all about a teaming approach at Hilton and some of my greatest wins are teams that have been recognized for their great levels of achievement or as a leadership team. Us really embracing and championing some significant initiatives whether they be giant change management initiatives that reshape how we deploy and cover accounts or other major initiatives like that. I know I’m being a little vague because I just feel like there have been so many successes and I’ve got to say those that really involve the team are the ones that I’m most proud of.

Fred Diamond: As you say that, when we did some preparation for today’s podcast we looked at some of the people on LinkedIn that were part of your organization. People were there for 15, 20, 25 years throughout and a lot of people were new, of course coming from other places so it must be a very strong team. Before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors, Frank, I’ve got one more question for you before the break. Did you ever question being in sales? Again, you’ve been with Hilton for 28 years, again you’re heading up Worldwide Sales for Hilton. Did you ever question it? Did you ever think to yourself, “You know what? It’s too hard, it’s just not for me.”

Frank Passanante: That is also an easy question, no. I have never questioned being in sales. Sales is a noble profession, everything starts with a sale and everybody is in sales. I wouldn’t think of doing anything else.

Fred Diamond: Did you ever work with Lisa Earle McLeod, the author? She actually wrote a book called Sales is a Noble Profession.

Frank Passanante: Has she? No, that’s great.

Fred Diamond: She’s based down in Atlanta, it’s actually the first time someone referenced sales as being a noble profession. Most people we interview are proud to be in sales, again they’ve reached high levels and they’ve had a lot of rewards from their profession so I’m glad that you said that.

[Sponsor break]

Fred Diamond: Frank, what is the most important thing you want to get across to the selling professionals listening around the globe to help them take their career to the next level?

Frank Passanante: One of the things that I would advise anyone is to really embrace a coaching mindset. That to me is so key to moving your career ahead, asking yourself, “How do I get better? How do I make an even greater contribution than I do today?” and making sure that you’re flexible, that you’re open-minded and that you really commit yourself to that. Everybody has a coach, whether it’s your direct boss or some peer coach. It’s really just being open to embracing the idea that through coaching I can be better tomorrow than I am today. I think that’s one of the greatest gifts and something that everybody should embrace.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us about one of your selling habits that has led to your continued success?

Frank Passanante: When I think about coaching, I immediately think about what we call scrimmaging. Scrimmaging is very similar to practice because that’s what it is, but here’s the thing. Over the years, every one of us, myself, many sales leaders I know, all the sales folks on my teams, we are all making incredibly important, impactful calls, appointments and meetings with customers and other stakeholders every single day.

The truth is we often run into those calls and appointments without having practiced those calls and appointments. We wouldn’t think of going out and playing a baseball game or a football game without really spending time scrimmaging and practicing, and yet somehow we’ve accepted in business that you can run out and do it the first time perfect. We as an organization, me as a personal habit have really embraced the idea that if I’ve got an impactful conversation – whether it be an internal team member, a coaching conversation or an external client appointment – anything that I feel that might be a bit challenging, we should scrimmage.

Scrimmaging is practicing but it’s done in a real time environment, it’s being done with your coach or a peer and it’s being done with the spirit of improvement meaning it’s not role playing, it’s actually stopping, its stopping and starting and trying different words out until you feel like you’re ready for game day. One habit that I have absolutely embraced over the years is the idea that listen, mom was right, practice may not always make perfect but practice certainly makes you better.

Fred Diamond: A quick question, how would you do that? You said it’s not role playing. You do it in a conference room, you go to one of your hotels and rent a room? In actuality, how would you see that happening?

Frank Passanante: One of the other habits or rituals, as we call them, that we embrace is a weekly coaching conversation. Everybody on our sales teams has a coach and there is a regular weekly coaching conversation. As a part of that weekly coaching conversation, one of the things that we always do is what do we need to scrimmage today? If I’m talking to one of my sales leaders and I say, “What do you need to scrimmage today?” They’re going to share with me a challenging customer appointment or a challenging team member situation that they have, they’re going to set the stage and we’re going to scrimmage.

I’m going to play one of the roles, they’re going to play the other and we’re just going to start trying it out and often times we’ll reverse roles because sometimes you get a different perspective. That’s what I’m doing with my players and that’s what they’re doing with their players, and their players are doing with their players. That really is what starts the ladder up to what I call this coaching culture, it’s all about practicing, scrimmaging and the weekly coaching conversation is an important ritual to enable that.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us about a major initiative you’re working on today to ensure your continued success?

Frank Passanante: So I’m just going to keep rolling because as you can see, I have some passion around coaching. One of the things that we’ve done that has really helped culturalize the way we approach our teams is we’ve implemented an initiative that we call our multi-coaching conversation. There are coaching moments calls where we bring all of our leadership teams together, it’s embedded around a topic, it has a little bit of education meaning I’ve got some learning and development partners that provide some education to my teams.

There is always a monthly topic we’re tackling, so it could be building your pipeline, it could be coaching for excellence, meaning coaching isn’t always about coaching for development. Sometimes you’re coaching to get people to replicate the greatness that they’ve exhibited. We’ll identify a topic, we’ll have some L&D and then we’ll have hand-selected people from my teams who will do real time scrimmaging for the 50 or 60 people on the call, on the coaching moment’s call. This has been a regular diet for the last 18 months or so and we’re re-energizing it. It’s a major initiative that we think is really powerful.

Fred Diamond: What is it about sales as a career that has kept you going?

Frank Passanante: Everything starts with a sale. I think that underlying principle is probably what keeps me going, what makes me enjoy it as much as I do is the unbelievable connections that we get to make. We are focused every day on developing meaningful connections and those often translate to meaningful relationships, friendships. We’re in the hospitality business to boot so add that on top of sales and it’s just a really exciting place to be, and I’m passionate about it.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you give us one final thought to inspire our listeners today?

Frank Passanante: Sales is a noble profession, embrace a coaching mindset and also embrace the idea that everyone should always be learning. If you embrace this idea of an always learning mindset and you want to be better tomorrow than you are today, you’ll have success and you’ll have success in sales.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 192: Senior Vice President, Hilton Worldwide Sales – Americas, Frank Passanante Shares How a Coaching Mindset Has Helped the Hospitality Leader Become Fortune’s Best Company to Work for first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

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EPISODE 147: Dollywood’s Cordelia Marzak Said This Lesson from Dolly Parton Helped Her Become a Powerful Sales Leader

CORDELIA’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Be authentic. Even Dolly herself would say, “I have the wig and I have the makeup and the hair” but at the end of the day she is authentic. You may be selling widgets, but as long as it’s the best widget and you love it, be authentic and follow that passion there.”

Cordelia Marzak is the Director of Sales for the Dollywood Company.

We conducted the interview at Dollywood’s DreamMore Resort and Spa located in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.

Prior to taking over the sales leadership role at Dollywood, Cordelia held sales leadership positions at the JHM Hotel in Orlando and has worked in the hospitality space for Marriott and Hilton properties.

Find Cordelia on LinkedIn!

Cordelia Marzak: I work for the Dollywood company which is an award-winning theme park, water park and lodging destinations with the Dollywood’s DreamMore Resort that opened up about 3 years ago. I am originally from East Tennessee and I grew up coming to Dollywood. Now it’s such a pleasure to watch my children on the same rides and roller coasters that I grew up watching and enjoying. I spent quite a long time in Orlando in the hospitality and hotel sector there, and then I had the opportunity to come back home to open the resort.

Fred Diamond: If you’re a kid, having a mom who’s a Director of Sales at an amusement park has got to be a blast.

Cordelia Marzak: Absolutely. My daughter thinks she was almost Olivia in the Plaza Palace when we opened the resort. She knew all the codes to the doors and would run around, she was definitely very excited about the new hotel.

Fred Diamond: We have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe, again we’re interviewing here today at Dollywood. Of course, that’s Dolly Parton’s namesake if you will, Dolly Parton a huge star of stage and screen and music, I’m sure she’s known around the world. We have one quick question before we begin, everybody wants to know: does she make you work 9 to 5?

Cordelia Marzak: [Laughs] we are in sales so we do not. We never work just 9 to 5 but we do pump the song through the sales office 24 hours a day.

Fred Diamond: Tell us specifically what you sell today and tell us what really excites you about that.

Cordelia Marzak: For me specifically, I oversee the group sales segment for the Dollywood Company for all of the theme parks and the resort in addition to our consignment ticketing product. For us, it is various segments of company outings or corporate events, larger special events where a gymnastics team can come in, smaller church organizations or family reunions, fraternal opportunities as well as a lot of ticketing partners that we have in the market that sell our tickets.

We have wonderful relationships with a lot of the area hotels as well, too. What’s exciting about that is the easy part, any time you can jump on a roller coaster before you come into work or eat cinnamon bread for your afternoon snack, but I think at the end of the day truly it’s the experience that we want everyone that comes here to have. An amazing experience with us in the mountains and spend time with family.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about your career. We mentioned you’ve worked in some Marriott and some Hilton properties but how did you first get into sales as a career?

Cordelia Marzak: My first foray into sales was in the retail sector with cosmetics. I was that mall girl spraying the perfume and trying to sit you down in a chair, but that’s where I’ve got the bug for it, just being able to listen to people and get to know people and understand the sales process.

Fred Diamond: Listening, that comes up not infrequently in the Sales Game Changers podcast. What are some skills that you have, some things you developed over the years to become a better listener and how do you translate that to your team?

Cordelia Marzak: I’ve been very fortunate to have a lot of sales training whether it be in the cosmetics around Marriott and Hilton. I even worked for R.J. Reynolds, a tobacco company, first out of college and the key component through all of them is training. I think part of the core of the training would be listening and understanding that you have to understand the customer and what they need before you walk in and really present your features and benefits and what you are, because it will fall on the fears if they know that you have not done your research and that you understand that customer before you even try to make a sale.

Fred Diamond: What are some of the things your customers are looking for? You talked about they want to know you understand them, we hear about that and we interview tons of people in the technology space where you just can’t show up and throw up. There’s this tendency, especially when you’re in early part of your sales career, you want to make sure you get every feature and benefit in. Is that similar here where sometimes when you’re relatively new you want to get all these great features in and then all these aspects of the park? “We have this new concession…” How do you take a step back and how do you get more in tune with what the customer needs to know?

Cordelia Marzak: I think it happens to everyone and again it’s practice – practicing the training that you’ve learned. I think from a listening approach, Marriott does amazing sales training and they have a very simple tool called a QIC, it’s a Qualifying Information Checklist. As elementary as that sounds, it will help you walk through that practice of asking the questions first. Who are you dealing with, are you dealing with the decision maker or just the person who’s gathering the information? Is that customer the person you’re speaking with, is that going to be the end user?

There’s a lot of information that you need to know and understand. Who is your competitor in the market, who have they used before? All very simple questions to just break through the surface, but understanding that will help you better position yourself when you go in for the close or when you actually are presenting your own product.

Fred Diamond: We’ve interviewed a number of Sales Game Changers in the hospitality space, we have Sales Game Changers around the world listening to the podcast. What are some of the critical personality characteristics for someone who would be successful working in this type of an environment?

Cordelia Marzak: I think the core of a salesperson – unfortunately, we use the word passion. I think everyone uses the word passion, but I think it truly defines who a salesperson is. If you do not have the passion for what you’re doing, you’ll lose that motivation and I think the motivation is the key for salespeople as a whole. I think just understanding your “why” at the end of the day, why you’re there, and how are you trying to enrich your customer’s lives? There has to be something about the product or the services that you’re selling that at the end of the day makes someone’s life or business better.

Fred Diamond: I have a question. You’re the Director of Sales for the Dollywood Company, we mentioned in the beginning that Dolly Parton of course has had a tremendous career, she’s a world-known celebrity. What is it about her, how does her branding play into how you sell? What are some of the things about the Dolly Parton brand that your sales professionals, your team wants to communicate with customers?

Cordelia Marzak: Of course it’s amazing having a living legend as a boss. She is everything that you think she is, she is everything that you want her to be. She is humble and kind and authentic, a tenacious business person. I think when you think about her brand and specifically how it relates to the Dollywood Company, she truly wanted everyone to be able to experience the Great Smoky Mountains, experience her home and have that enjoyable moment. I think for us using that brand in addition to the theme park, it’s the authentic part of what we do. We are deeply rooted in our culture here and the theme park, if you have the moment to experience it, you’ll see that it’s a very thematic overlay of the Great Smoky Mountains and what it means to be in the south.

At the same time, she definitely doesn’t want it to be, “Come see Dolly Parton’s place.” It is just a piece of her, I think it helps people have an awareness of what we are but a true comprehension sometimes is where we have to come in from the sales approach and let people know that we’re not just a couple of roller coasters, a couple of shows but we’re this amazing regional theme park with an even more amazing resort.

Fred Diamond: I’m going to ask you a question before we ask you about your area of brilliance and what you’re an expert in. You mentioned the word “why” and that comes up not infrequently. Of course, a lot of the Sales Game Changers listeners are probably Ted fans and they’re probably familiar with Simon Sinek, his classic Ted Talk on “why”. What might be the “why” you need to have to be successful in selling for a company like Dollywood and the products that you sell?

Cordelia Marzak: Dollywood as a company is deeply rooted in a servant leadership mentality and a lead with love view on how we are to treat ourselves. We actually call our employees host because we are inviting you to our home and we are hosting you here. It’s not just from a customer facing standpoint, it’s also from down even to a line level host that we all are important here. For us knowing our “why” comes from those culture aspects as well and understanding that the team is just as important as the guest. We all support each other, if it’s a busy day on park you will find some of us serving turkey legs or helping out there too and that’s what we love to do because it’s helping one another.

I think knowing our “why” is part of our mission and vision, creating memories worth repeating and bringing families here. Even though we may sell to a corporate customer, the end user for them is the family members and they are either rewarding them by bringing them to the park, showing their appreciation and we’re just honored that they choose us to demonstrate that kind of kindness to their employees. Understanding our “why” is driven from the culture servant leadership and at the end of the day how do we make a family just spend more time together and enjoy that.

Fred Diamond: Tell us what you’re an expert in, tell us about your specific area of brilliance.

Cordelia Marzak: I think it’s cultivating the team, we do have quite a few different segments of business from call center to inside sales, outside sales, hotels consignment program, a lot of different touch points there. I truly feel that I am only as successful as the team I have, I have a powerhouse team, I hope they’re all listening right now.

Fred Diamond: And sharing (the podcast)!.

Cordelia Marzak: And sharing [laughs] and understand that their impact, each one of the sales members and managers and leads that I have come to work every single day with a passion and a drive. I think when you’re building those kind of teams, if they did not understand the culture that they were coming into, into Dollywood, it just wouldn’t work. When we do have to go help our fellow host on park or we’re coming over to the resort to do something to help there as well, that’s embedded in us and we support each other. Outside of just being able to make your numbers and have that tenacious sales acumen there, you have to understand what we do at the end of the day and why we’re bringing people here.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’ve had a great career in sales, you’ve worked for some great brands Marriott brand, Hilton brand too and most recently the JHM Hotel in Orlando Florida. Now you’re working again with one of the largest brands in the history of entertainment, so you must have had some great mentors along the way, people who’ve helped you get to this particular role. Why don’t you mention or tell us about an impactful sales career mentor and how they impacted your career?

Cordelia Marzak: I have truly been fortunate to work with amazing sales leaders and I will say even more specifically, amazing women in those roles as well. When you ask that question in my mind three or four pop in automatically, one in particular, her name is Marie. She was one of my first bosses in Orlando and she truly brought those around her up to a different level. She was tough, she made no excuses but at the end of the day we all knew that it came from a place of love and appreciation. When she’s checking your grammar on an email or even when you entered a trace into sales force and she was commenting on your lack of punctuation, it just understands how you present yourself even in small areas can relate to the customer as well.

I always enjoyed working for people who brought me up to another level and then most recently working here even though I don’t get to work with her on a daily basis, hearing business stories of Dolly Parton I think is truly amazing. Most people see her from the entertainment, the kind, the sweet, the witty, blonde hair, but she is a fierce business women. One of the most recent stories that I heard was Elvis Presley came to her and asked to buy the rights to I Will Always Love You, and at that moment in time she said no. She was fearful that that could have been the end of her career but she knew in her heart that it was not the time to do that, that song belonged to her for a little bit longer and what it actually meant to her.

As most people know, years later Whitney Houston sang the song and gave a new breath of life to it, really re-energized a different point in Dolly’s career there. I think the point of her story was just understanding trust in what you feel, your gut feeling, trust that as well. I think a lot of times as new sales leaders you don’t always know the value and your worth when you’re at the table, so don’t take that for granted. You’re there for a reason, trust that.

Fred Diamond: That’s an amazing story and that’s a great little bit of trivia, not many people know that she wrote the song I Will Always Love You, which became I think the biggest selling single of all time from The Bodyguard, Whitney Houston. That was an interesting thing that Elvis offered to buy it from her and she understood that it was more valuable than that. Her story is such an amazing story, she grew up around here and she’s told her story many times, it’s been documented a hundred times. I remember one when she was starting out, she used to take ketchup and mix it with hot water and that was her meal, drinking ketchup soup. You mentioned women in sales, we’ve interviewed some great women in sales over the course of the Sales Game Changers podcast. If you don’t mind my asking, what might be some of your advice to the young ladies listening to today’s podcast that they should be thinking about to help them get successful in their career?

Cordelia Marzak: I think it’s sales advice in general, but sometimes being a younger female leader walking in, sales actually is a great venue for women. There’s a lot of women in sales, we really thrive there but don’t forget like I said, you’re at the table for a reason. Trust in your gut instincts, there’s so many times I was sitting and we were having brainstorming ideas and I had something on my brain that I did not mention at that time and I was like, “Everyone here is so smart, somebody would have thought about that already surely” so I didn’t say it.

Two minutes later, someone else at the table would have mentioned that exact same thing and they were praised for that idea, and it happened to me a couple of times. There is a risk factor there, there are going to be times that you say something that maybe not be the most articulate in that conversation or the best idea but don’t hold back and trust that you are there for a reason, give value to what you have to offer to your team.

Fred Diamond: If you think about the Wayne Gretzky analogy, great hockey player, “You don’t score any of the shots you don’t take.” I just go to ask you one more Dolly Parton question since you’ve brought her up and obviously she’s such a big star. Again, we’re doing today’s podcast interview at the Dollywood’s DreamMore Resort and Spa, it’s right next to the Dollywood Resort and it’s a beautiful facility. Just tell us one thing from Dolly Parton, you’ve mentioned a couple examples there and the great story about Elvis. Tell us one thing that you’ve learned over the last couple years working here that you’ve taken away from her specifically to make you a better sales professional.

Cordelia Marzak: Maybe not in a sales realm exactly, but one of my first experiences with her was when we were opening the resort. We had closed down all the hallways to let her and her entourage get from point A to point B and do interviews and there were two of our room attendants that had gotten caught in the chaos and were standing there, and they had a terrified look on their face like, “Uh-oh, we’re not supposed to be here, we may be in the way.” With all these people around and TV cameras and personalities, she makes a B line for these two room attendants and she takes a moment and she thanks them.

She said, “Thank you so much for cleaning these rooms and making my hotel so beautiful for my guests.” It was just such an authentic moment of gratitude that I’m sure these room attendants will remember forever and it just caught me that no matter how big you get, where you go in life, don’t forget that gratitude can speak volumes. I’m sure that she’s built lifelong friendships like that but you still have to understand that it’s the gratitude and being kind and appreciative of the people who work around you.

Take a moment, write that thank you card, it takes five minutes and when you do give that praise and the gratitude, make sure it’s specific. Don’t just do the pat on the back, “Hey, that was great.” It is, “Thank you very much for making yourselves appointments this week and achieving X” and then sometimes go even to the personal side as well.

Fred Diamond: What are the two biggest challenges you face today as a sales leader?

Cordelia Marzak: I think the staffing and the recruiting is common and even on some of your other podcasts, not even just in sales. It’s always a recruiting and a staffing piece, I’ve been very fortunate to have a solid team for a couple of years but when I first came in here we had quite a bit of a turnover, it was just that season to a point. I’m always an advocate of the bench strength making sure that if you’ve got certain people in place but who’s going to come up behind them in those ranks, how is this team going to change in a year or two and how are you going to be prepared for that.

Our company currently is growing very rapidly with additional lodging, we are opening a new land for the theme park in May, so even more groups need to come which means an even bigger sales team eventually. What does that look like for us here? Always trying to be able to see out the vision of your bench strength and how you’re building that.

Fred Diamond: Curiously, you mentioned regional a couple of times. Dollywood is starkly a regional facility. What would the region be and are you trying to expand outside of the region nationwide?

Cordelia Marzak: Yes, we specifically talk about our core market and our aspirational markets. Specifically you’re looking at more tours in Atlanta, Cincinnati, Chicago, and when we pull out of our demographics, “Look, we’re all the way over here in California” but yes, absolutely. We’ve reached out quite a bit further within the last few years, additionally with the resort and being able to accommodate that as well.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’ve had a great career, you’ve worked with some great brands, now you’re working for a beautiful park and beautiful facility. Why don’t you tell us about the #1 specific sale success or win from your career you’re most proud of?

Cordelia Marzak: There’s quite a few, and they all come back to the relationship that I was able to build with someone. This may not be exactly just one example but when you work in a hotel in Orlando they’re everywhere, especially when you have a brand, a property or select service as well. They are relatively the same, you go anywhere and a Hampton should be a Hampton as a Hampton. I think that’s really where it taught me that relationship sale, that do they trust me and ensure me with their business more so than the person coming behind me that’s on the exact same product? When I started to see those successes and those partnerships and those relationship built, that’s when I really learned what I had to offer as a salesperson. I truly was concerned that I was meeting a need that they had and I did it well for them. I think that was for me the overall win, the moment I learned where I was good in sales.

Fred Diamond: Did you ever question being in sales? Did you ever say to yourself, “It’s really just too hard, it’s really just not for me”?

Cordelia Marzak: Absolutely, and It necessarily wasn’t the “It’s just too hard” moment. I feel into an industry early on straight out of college, I worked for a large tobacco company and I was great at selling. Obviously, there’s a little lack of passion when you’re selling cigarettes [laughs] and really what you feel at the end of the day that you’re contributing back. When I lost that passion, I had a passion for what I did in sales and I think because it was so early on I was numbers-driven and I was making my numbers and I had great success but there was still an emptiness there that I didn’t feel like I was fulfilling something for the greater good. That’s when I lost the passion for it. I have to have a passion for what the end product is, that it’s going to do something good and it’s going to be something positive.

Fred Diamond: Cordelia, what’s the most important thing you want to get across to the junior selling professionals listening around the globe to help them take their sales career to the next level?

Cordelia Marzak: For the purpose of this question I’m going to assume that you have already built out a marketing plan, business plan, sales plan, I think a lot of podcasts and trainings, that has to be your first step. I’m not going to go there, I’m going to assume that you have done that step. After you have all these pieces in place, what are the tactical components that you use on a daily basis to get to your end results? I’m going to say practice. The core of the trainings that I have been through in any of the industries was the training and the role play and videotaping yourself. I will say video more than audio because you can watch your inflections and your body language when you’re being presented with objections, how you look when you’re presenting the facts and listening.

Do you lean in with your body language and let your customer know that you’re listening to them? I would definitely start out, videotape yourself first. There are a slew of books and resources that you can use to articulate what sales process works best for you, but you need to lay that out. What do you need to accomplish from a cold caller, maybe like a warm call more so? What needs to happen in the next step of the actual appointment? What information or transaction needs to happen when you go in to close the business? Really understanding what the sales process looks like and asking the right questions at the right time so you are the one who is in control of the conversation. If you don’t gather the information that you need from the beginning, you’re going to walk in to close the sale and you’re not prepared to handle the objections. They’re going to come up with things that you never discovered and that can stop your process again.

Go back, articulate the actual process, videotape yourself, have a peer, someone else you work with walk through the roles with you, walk through objections. One of the companies I worked for knew we had objections so many times we actually had a little field guide and we would flip through them all the time and just practice on what they may anticipate saying. Then we had our piece too, that would go with that. You know your product and you know the customer that you’re going after. Practice, practice, practice.

Fred Diamond: As you’re talking about this, that comes up frequently: the need to prepare. Again, we’re talking here a number of times about Dolly Parton and prior to her going on the stage she just didn’t say, “I’m just going to go on the stage without ever having practiced the song” with her band. When you watch her on video, she’s become such an unbelievably, worldwide, global star because every millisecond, I’m sure, is thought out and every camera angle. Everything about what she does has been prepared and practiced, thousands if not tens of thousands of hours. Salespeople on the Sales Game Changers podcast listening today, take that to heart. This is your profession, you’re in the big leagues if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re devoting time and energy to your career, make sure you practice the right way. Cordelia, tell us some of the sales habits you’ve deployed to continue your success.

Cordelia Marzak: I think those evolve as you grow in your career. As of early on, again, the articulating your plan. I’m a big advocate of having a written plan or a draft on your phone, however you need to carry that piece of information with you. Then making sure that you can sit down every single week and understand what you’re going to get accomplished. Also as you’re growing to your next steps is understanding the vision.

When I first went into a certain role I went from one industry to the next and I didn’t truly at that time feel I understood that industry as well as I needed to. I was seeking out other mentors and people to talk to and one of the common things that ran through was, “You know the vision. I may not understand the product, but you have a team underneath you. Rely on them, you maintain the vision until you get there with your product.” You have to know that and you have to know your competitors, but in the beginning don’t become overwhelmed that you have to know the ins and outs of every single piece because you’ll get lost in that. Understand that you were brought in for a reason, there’s a goal and there’s an end result. Keep your eye on that vision and don’t get sidetracked from that.

Fred Diamond: Tell us about a major initiative you’re working on today to ensure your continued success.

Cordelia Marzak: Again, my notes, I’m looking down and it says “vision” right beside that piece. As I mentioned before, Dollywood as a company is growing. We will continue to grow very rapidly and understanding that sometimes the vision that you have and you’re working towards that, you may have to deviate. Things change, projects aren’t approved and things have to move in a different direction, you have to be able to accommodate that quickly. If you look on my desk, I have a rock and I have Gumby [laughs] it’s flexibility and strength, you have to understand and know when to bend and when to stay strong. I think part of that vision is it’s not just one linear approach, be able to say, “This is the path I’m going, this may have to happen” and don’t get derailed when it didn’t happen exactly in the order you thought it might.

Fred Diamond: Cordelia, sales is hard. We’ve talked about some of the challenges, again you’re in a competitive space, there’s plenty of options for companies to choose and for individuals where they could go, where they’re going to spend their limited vacation dollars. People don’t return your phone calls or your emails, especially on your corporate side. You’ve given us a lot of a great understanding about your “why” and we could definitely get your passion about the product that you’re bringing and the team and how motivated they are, but why have you continued? What is it about sales as a career that has kept you going?

Cordelia Marzak: For me it’s twofold. In the beginning it was the relationships with the customer, it was getting to know them and helping them be successful in what they were trying to accomplish at the end of the day. It was where that initial passion came on and then as it has evolved I loved to see my team be successful. I love when they get that commission check or a bonus or they’ve landed that big account and we sit down and we take a moment, I just let them pour into me all of their successes. Not always successes and maybe sometimes it’s the challenges and then we can work through them, but to see the team elevate, work together and be successful knowing that they can come to work and pass on our “why” is definitely fulfilling for me.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you give us one final thought to inspire them today?

Cordelia Marzak: We can maybe boil it down to a few words. I think authentic, even Dolly herself would be like, “I have the wig and I have the makeup and the hair” but at the end of the day she is authentic, that is her, that is who she is and she’s being true to herself. I think we have to be true to ourselves too in the product and what you’re trying to do. You may be selling widgets, but as long as it’s the best widget and you love it, follow that passion there. Then again is the practice, I can’t say that enough that it’s the role playing, videotape yourself, watch yourself and watch yourself grow. I think you’ll really surprise yourself.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 147: Dollywood’s Cordelia Marzak Said This Lesson from Dolly Parton Helped Her Become a Powerful Sales Leader first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

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KEY MOMENTS
Key lessons from your first few sales jobs: 05:22
Name an impactful sales mentor: 10:05
Two biggest challenges you face today as a sales leader: 12:48
Most important tip: 20:56
How do you sharpen your saw and stay fresh: 24:14
Inspiring thought: 25:19

EPISODE 096: Here’s How Hospitality Sales Leader Jen Erney of ALHI Helps Her Member Hotels Sell Experiences…and Plenty of Sleeping Rooms

JEN’S CLOSING TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “My motto is that it takes seven touch points to make one memorable experience so don’t think that just one email is going to get you in the door or one left voicemail message or one directory or collateral that you sent through the mail. So do it often, do it thoughtfully and don’t be afraid to ask the hard questions.”

Jennifer Erney is the Regional VP of Sales at the Associated Luxury Hotels International, also known as ALHI.

She had previously worked at the Fairmont Hotels, Kimpton Hotels and Loews Hotels.

Find Jennifer on LinkedIn!

Fred Diamond: I’m excited to talk to you today. As a little bit of trivia, you were a graduate of Johnson Wales University and you said you met your husband there. I also have a son who went to Johnson Wales University, we’ve interviewed probably about a half a dozen to a dozen people for the podcast who come from the hospitality space and many of them have been graduates of JWU so it’s great to talk to you and it was great to have learned that about you. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you sell today, and tell us what excites you about that?

Jennifer Erney: Fred, I have the great privilege of representing a finely curated collection of independent and emerging branded hotels. Here at ALHI we are a global sales organization and we’re dedicated to those hotels that have a keen interest in booking meetings and incentive business. We’ve been granted the authority and we have the very well respected and honoring responsibility of providing global sale services for all of our members.

We’re also proud to say that we have close to 300 luxury level hotels and resorts around the world and we also have an alliance of cruise ships and DMC services. We have a distinct portfolio that was hand selected and we want to ensure that our customers receive the four and five diamond quality service for all of their meetings.

Fred Diamond: You used the word “members.” Tell us what an emerging hotel looks like, you also used that word as well. What does that mean for the people listening to the podcast?

Jennifer Erney: For members which here in Washington DC should be very easy for people to understand, we operate just as an association so these independent hotels who didn’t necessarily have a voice on their own to compete in this very cluttered marketplace where there’s many obviously large brands, we give them the opportunity and have the voice to do that.

As a member, they can curate their member experience with us through events, marketing and of course in having a very experienced sales team in many different offices. As far as emerging brands, there’s so many great boutique brand hotels and when we see of emerging brands think of those collections that probably are no more than 60 or 75 hotels and for many of those they also need augmenting to their sales service, and we’re able to do that as well.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little bit about how you got into sales as a career.

Jennifer Erney: I had to think back to that for a little bit, and actually my first job I am proud to say was at a video store in my home town. When I was thinking of that and it also partly to my great association experience because my job before Blockbuster ever existed as I was asking the folks in my town to become a member of our video store and obviously I was selling them, if you would, the benefits of the free popcorn, the additional movies or free movies that they would be able to get so that truly was my first way to get into that. With sales there’s perks so of course I had many free movies for myself and my family and friends and when the store was slow I got caught up in all of my favorites which are Weird Science, Goonies and of course 16 Candles.

Fred Diamond: 16 Candles is a classic, of course the great Molly Ringwald.

Jennifer Erney: That certainly dates me [laughs].

Fred Diamond: Now again you’re selling services to hotels, your members that we talked about before, some luxury chains, you also talked about cruises as well. I’m curious, what are some of the lessons you might have learned from working in a video store that have continued with you today?

Jennifer Erney: I think a lot of things have also changed in the selling methodology from the 80’s till now as well. I think the one thing that I learned was to be patient, there’s so many times that you want to get excited and tell them all about your services or all about those memberships and it might not be what they’re looking for so I think being a great listener and I also feel to, actually the terminology of show up and throw up doesn’t work.

I actually had a sales I guess we’ll call leader at some point that said, “Throw it out there and see if it sticks” and I asked, “Sticks to what?” so if you’re spending all those time and resources and it’s not for what the end user wants, then we obviously need to take a different approach. I also think there’s a very different approach too, to the business to consumer and business to business and I find myself suited in more of the business to business type sales situations.

Fred Diamond: I have a quick question for you. The concept of being a better listener comes up throughout many of the Sales Game Changers podcast, so I like to ask some of the guests how have you become a better listener? Can you give us some insights into how you’ve deployed better listening skills over the course of your career?

Jennifer Erney: I think to become a better listener you have to have an agenda for yourself before you walk into any sales activity or situation because at the end of the day if you actually listen they’re going to tell you all that you want to know, just as we are here today and I’m excited to share with you about my experience, your customers are too. So many times I have witnessed salespeople throughout my career just show up and tell them everything about their product, their service and what they’re so excited about when they probably didn’t actually find out where the synergy’s lie with that relationship.

I think checking yourself at the door and making sure that you know that you have to be a great listener. I’ve also found when I say to a customer, “If it’s OK with you, I’d like you to tell me more about your organization and your needs and I’ll be taking some notes” and that puts you in the position of listening.

Fred Diamond: That’s actually very powerful. If you think about it, your members, your customers, anyone listening on the Sales Game Changers podcast, they can pretty much get anything they need to know about your offering over the internet so there’s not a huge amount of value to them if you come to the meeting and just show up and throw up, like you said.

Jennifer Erney: Exactly.

Fred Diamond: So how do you get to the core of what they’re trying to get to? Last thing before we ask you about some of your specific area of brilliances, who do you specifically sell to? What type of a title is your typical customer?

Jennifer Erney: Great, very easy. We sell to meeting planners and those meeting planners come across all sectors here in Washington DC, of course we’re very fortunate, I can’t remember the exact number but I think it’s upward of over 6,000 associations and every association has a meeting of some shape or size. We also work with corporate meeting planners, nonprofit, government and of course those intermediary agencies as well.

Fred Diamond: Very good. For the Sales Game Changers listening to the podcast, I know you’re also friends with Melissa Riley in Destination DC and she was on a previous Sales Game Changers podcast. If you want to know some of the challenges that media planners face, please listen to that podcast and we’ll have a link to that on the show notes from today. We’re talking with Jennifer Erney, she’s the regional VP at ALHI. Jennifer, what are you an expert in? Tell us a little more about your specific area of brilliance?

Jennifer Erney: This was a very humbling question because you never want to say that you’re an expert but I will say that my brilliance is probably in being an analytical thinker with a human touch. My business is so much about relationships and how to continue that relationship after the sale. We pride ourselves if not doing a transactional sale that it should be this forever long relationship cycle, but many times because sales is stressful it gets sometimes very emotional so people want to make a decision based on their emotion as opposed to the data so I’ve prided myself through my 20 + years in the industry of stepping back, reviewing the data and then coming back to what the decision is and knowing that sometimes the decision might not be the best for both parties but in the end we want to make sure that the outcome is what the client wanted, not necessarily always what we wanted and that once we’ve made the decision that we stick to it.

Fred Diamond: I like that, it’s the first time I’ve heard that on the Sales Game Changers podcast, you’re an analytical thinker with a human touch. A lot of the people that we’ve interviewed have had 10, 20, 30 years of experience, you have to understand data, you have to be data driven but in almost every case everyone understands that you’re dealing with people so how do you be as effective as possible? Jennifer, to have gotten to where you are today you must have had some great mentors along the way. Why don’t you tell us about an impactful sales career mentor or two and how they impacted your career?

Jennifer Erney: I’m so glad that you asked this question because I have to say I’ve sought out a mentor in every job opportunity that I’ve had so to come up with one or two is a very difficult one but I do want to share a few of my favorites. When I worked for Lowes Hotels, there was this incredible woman by the name of Charlotte St. Martin and at the time she was the EVP of sales and operation so she definitely knew both sides of the business. She taught me the appreciation of graciousness, poise and that a hand written note will never go out of style.

Then at Kimpton Hotels I had the great honor of working with Christine Lawson who now works for Lowes Hotels and I just enjoyed her spunk, her spirit and energy and same, there has to be a human touch to what it is that we do. She took a chance to promote me into a regional role and as a rookie I appreciate all the time and attention that she gave to me.

Moving on to Fairmont Hotels where I spent a large part of my career – just over 10 years – I worked with Liz Erickson. She had 40 years with the brand here in Washington DC and she took the time to introduce me to everyone and also impacted my desire to give back to the industry by volunteering with organizations such as PCMA and ASAE so they were a few of my favorites.

Fred Diamond: You said you do some volunteering, what kind of things do you do? And you said PCMA, what organization is that?

Jennifer Erney: My apologies, PCMA is the Professional Convention Management Association and that membership base is of both those from the supplier space so you would find hotels, convention and visitors bureaus, technology companies and then of course meeting planners. We get together very frequently and throw our annual meetings and fund raising events and the one thing that always inspired me about PCMA is that they have a foundation and their true mission is actually to raise funds to offer scholarships so I was very fortunate that I didn’t need a scholarship to go to school but so many people want to get into this industry and they might not necessarily have the means to do that, and PCMA the foundation is very focused on that. I’m very passionate about them.

Fred Diamond: Very good. Do you still have relationships with the mentors that you just talked about?

Jennifer Erney: I do, I speak to all of them.

Fred Diamond: What are the two biggest challenges that you face today as a sales leader?

Jennifer Erney: Technology is always top of mind for me on both sides of everything, both on how technology is affecting our meeting planners in the space, how are they receiving information, how are they curating their data and also in my side here with a sales team of 10, how are we being perceived, how are we using technology and how are we making sure that we’re staying top of mind whether it’s our presentations, our marketing and all of those.

Technology is always top of mind for me, and just trying to stay current. There’s so much that goes out there and it’s obviously at this crazy rate so you’re proud that you know go to meetings today but there’s going to be a new product tomorrow so just continually staying up to date on all of those.

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you take us back to the #1 specific sale success or win from your career that you’re most proud of? Take us back to that moment.

Jennifer Erney: It actually wasn’t too long ago, it was during my Fairmont career and there in global sales we were moving forward with the total account management process or we like to call TAM and we recognized that we had a corporate client of ours that we saw that was very loyal to our brand but we had four salespeople devoted to this account in many different fashions.

All four of them collectively booked about 1 million dollars in business and that is a great accomplishment nonetheless. However, as we did more mapping and understanding more about their strategic meeting management platform, their procurement, how legal was involved, how they viewed brands together, we opted to have one global sales contact which I was honored was myself and after one complete year of having one contact and understanding all of their business we increased our share from 1 million to 5 million dollars.

Fred Diamond: Jennifer, I have a quick question if you don’t mind. A lot of the people listening to the Sales Game Changers podcast are coming from different industries – they’re in technology, professional services, we talked about B to B. Most of them are B to B, many of them don’t really understand what sales means for a hotel so can you give us a little bit of an insight? Are you trying to sell rooms, are you trying to sell conferences? Typical hotel, what does sales mean and what are the highest priorities if you will, from a sales perspective?

Jennifer Erney: Absolutely. We’re selling an experience and it’s something that’s tangible from the perspective that yes, you’re going to receive a meal and yes, you’re going to sleep in a bed but in the end of the day, our meeting planners are trying to curate an experience and they use us as the vehicle to be able to do that. What’s highest priority, of course, is that we need to put heads in beds first so people obviously the guest room count is usually the most important followed by then whatever their meeting needs will be – general sessions, the amount of great break outs if they’re having a gala dinner and then working with them to find out how it is that that’s going to help them. If they’re an association, they of course want to be able to have their members have a great experience to come back.

Many times in the corporate space it could be for an incentive because they’re rewarding their people so a different experience that we need to curate for them but truly it’s the experience business.

Fred Diamond: You started off working in a video store, you went to a great college, Johnson and Wales, but was there ever a moment where you thought to yourself, “It’s too hard, it’s just not for me”?

Jennifer Erney: Actually, no. When I saw that question I really had to think back and a mentor that I didn’t mention but I first entered Johnson and Wales thinking that I was more in the restaurant business, quickly learned that maybe the hours weren’t for me and I had a professor who actually was a meeting planner in her past life and she shared with me obviously how great hospitality sales and marketing could be.

I’ve always had a passion to be the best I can be, I approached my role actually as a relationship builder, a connection maker and through that the clients find value and partnership with me. I want to be their trusted adviser and they see I want to seek to understand them and their organization needs and I’m really not trying to “sell” them anything. It’s obviously obvious they have meetings and we have a solution, we just have to find the synergy in the middle to make that work.

Fred Diamond: Jennifer, before we go to break and listen to one of our sponsors, I just want to ask you one of the quick questions. I know the first question we asked you is tell us a little bit about your company and what excites you but one think I can get through this interview is that you really do have a passion for the hospitality space, for the meeting planning space. Can you just talk for a second before we go to break and listen to one of our sponsors, what is it about this industry that excites you? You have such an exhilaration about not just what you’re bringing, I know you have a lot of confidence in the solutions you bring in to your member hotels, etcetera, but what is it about this space that excites you? You do exude just a joy for the market that you’re serving.

Jennifer Erney: I very much appreciate that, and yes. My passion has run through and through since obviously graduating from Johnson and Wales and at the end our industry is actually fun. I know it’s stressful, we have goals, there’s pressures, we’re all respectively running a business whether it’s me and providing the service and obviously meetings for my members and of course providing the results for the leadership within our organization but our meeting planners, they also are doing that as well. I think the space for those who are ever thinking of coming into it, we do try to have fun while we’re doing it, we have great opportunities to go to conference, create networking events and as we’re all trying to show that we’re the best of the best, we have fun being able to attend receptions and seeing what’s new and exciting out there.

Fred Diamond: One other thing that comes up across the Sales Game Changers podcast that we do is that if you don’t have passion for what you’re selling, there’s no way you’re going to succeed and it has to be genuine, it has to be authentic.

Jennifer, what’s the most important thing you want to get across to junior selling professionals to help them improve their career?

Jennifer Erney: As we were just talking how technology is so very important, I want to challenge them to get out from behind their laptop, get their head out from their smart phone and go out and meet people. You can do this in so many ways and if you’re in the hospitality business on the sale side, we will find any creative way for you to get in front of the customer. Volunteer, attend industry events. It takes you longer and more minutes to try to establish a relationship over email than it would for you to pick up the phone and invite them for coffee. I made friends and clients for life doing it that way so if you’re good at what you do and you have the passion that you want to do this then sales will come very easy for you.

Fred Diamond: What are some of the things you do to sharpen your saw and stay fresh?

Jennifer Erney: I’ll be quite honest, when I was in my last job I was coasting along for a good while. I loved my brand, I loved everything that I was doing and representing but I realized that I wasn’t doing anything for myself so I did have to sharpen my saw and I realized that if I didn’t evolve to grow I couldn’t sustain – although I could sustain being a seller through retirement, I knew that that’s not what I wanted to do. I knew I had more I wanted to share, just as I’ve had many great mentors I hope I have been mentor to others and I made a conscious effort to read more about our industry, volunteer and take the opportunity to educate myself more.

Through many of these industry organizations it’s very easy to get some certifications so I tasked myself to get one and I have to say I’m very pleased that I have four and I’m working on my fifth which is my CMM so I hope to have that under my belt very soon as well. You’re learning what’s new in the industry and with that many of these industry certifications you’re meeting clients through there as well so they see that you’re investing in yourself and that this is your craft, it’s not just your job.

Fred Diamond: For the Sales Game Changers listening to the podcast who may not be familiar with some certifications in your space, you said you have four. Tell us what they are, brag a little bit.

Jennifer Erney: Sure, I have my CMP which is Certificate in Meeting Planning, I have my K Certified Association Sales Executive, I have my CHSE which is Certified Hospitality Sales Executive and I completed my meeting certificate series with ASAE.

Fred Diamond: Very good. What’s a major initiative you’re working on today to ensure your continued success?

Jennifer Erney: Since education has become very important to me again I was thinking of what is my post sales life looking like and just as that great professor helped me at Johnson and Wales I would love to teach some day and of course I would love to go back and teach at Johnson and Wales. They now have an online MBA program for hospitality so I hope I’ll have that under my belt very soon.

Fred Diamond: Once again, as a father who has put a child through Johnson and Wales I fully endorse that school, it’s been a great school. As a matter of fact, we’ve met so many people through the podcast as we’ve interviewed a whole bunch of people in the hospitality space who have gone to Johnson and Wales so if you’re listening to the podcast and one of your children are considering going there, feel free to reach out to me, I’ll give you my opinions which is very high.

Jennifer, sales is hard. People don’t return your calls or your emails, why have you continued? You also mentioned some of the challenges along the way with staying current on technology and things like that but what is it about sales as a career that keeps you going?

Jennifer Erney: As we talked about the passion, you can always tell somebody who has the – excuse the expression, fire in their belly – and I come in in the morning, I subscribe to the Franklin Covey method of putting the top 5 things I need to get done that day. It’s very easy to get distracted with all of those other things but when I’ve created a hit list and there’s a customer that I know that I want to get in or there’s someone on my sales team that has not been able to open that door to have that great accomplishment to get in there, the fist pumps come out and we’re really excited to be able to make that happen.

Fred Diamond: There’s so many things that were good about today’s podcast. I really am thinking, it keeps coming back to me that you described yourself as an analytical thinker with a human touch so there’s so much power into that, especially as we listen to your passion for your industry which I’m sure continues across to the passion that you have for your members and for your customers to help them achieve their goals. Jennifer, thank you so much for being on the Sales Game Changers podcast. Why don’t you give us one final thought that you can share with the Sales Game Changers around the globe listening to the podcast today?

Jennifer Erney: First, my motto is that it takes seven touch points to make one memorable experience so don’t think that just one email is going to get you in the door or one left voicemail message or one directory or collateral that you sent through the mail. So do it often, do it thoughtfully and don’t be afraid to ask the hard questions. In our business regardless of what you’re selling you do hear no as often and I think that just only builds your confidence and take it as it makes you stronger and not to be defeated, and you have to challenge yourself why you did hear no. Is it that you didn’t have the right solution to meet your needs? Did you talk only about yourself and not learn about them? At the front end and obviously if you continue to challenge yourself it will certainly pay off.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 096: Here’s How Hospitality Sales Leader Jen Erney of ALHI Helps Her Member Hotels Sell Experiences…and Plenty of Sleeping Rooms first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.