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EPISODE 202: Sales Mindset Development Expert Umar Hameed Says Change is Possible if Sales Professionals Apply These Simple Techniques

UMAR’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “I want to share with people and I hope they get it in their hearts is that change is possible, change happens very quickly, you can make that change permanently. With technologies from applied neuroscience, neurolinguistic programming and others we have a deep understanding of how to create that change quickly and make that change permanent.”

Umar Hameed is the developer of the NeuroBoosterz, a tool to help sales professionals optimize their performance by improving their mindset.

Here is the link to the app website: NeuroBoosterz – Software for your mind (https://neuroboosterz.com/)

He is an expert on changing human behaviors and he’s worked with sales teams around the globe to help them improve their performance.

He’s an expert on Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) and its applications in business and sales.

Find Umar on LinkedIn!

Umar Hameed: Fred, thanks so much for having me on the show, I’m a big fan. My reason for being is helping people get the tools they need to take charge of their mindset so they can get better performance not only in sales, in leadership but in life.

Fred Diamond: Let’s start from the beginning, what does mindset mean? We hear about improving your mindset, as a matter of fact, at the Institute for Excellence in Sales mindset comes up all the time and actually on the Sales Game Changers podcast it comes up all the time as well. What do we mean by mindset, before we talk about ways to enhance and improve it?

Umar Hameed: I’ll tell it to you in this way: have you ever heard of affirmations?

Fred Diamond: Absolutely.

Umar Hameed: People believe in them, right? You could have somebody out there saying, “I am the best salesperson in the world” and they could say it a hundred times but underneath that, there’s another voice saying, “Who the hell are you kidding?” That is mindset, we’ve got the conscious part – what we say, what we want – and we go to workshops, we learn tools. “This is it, this is going to be the year, 2020 is going to be my year, Fred.” How many salespeople are going to say that around the globe? Every one of them, but how many of them are really going to make this the year?

The answer is not enough because that negative voice that came up in the affirmation story I told you is what we believe and what’s really going on. We go to take the actions we want but our mindset can either enhance our actions so we get the results we want, or it can sabotage our actions. Nobody ever says, “You know what would be fun? I’m going to talk to myself negatively for the next 20 minutes before I go into a sales meeting.” “You’re ugly, you’ll never sell anything.” No one does that on purpose, but it’s coming from somewhere and where it’s coming from is our mindset, and we’ll go deeper into that as we go on this conversation.

Fred Diamond: Absolutely. The app that you’ve created, the NeuroBoosterz app actually helps people take their mindset and make it stronger. We’re going to talk about that at length but before we get to that, tell us a little more about you. Tell us what you’re specifically an expert in. Again, we’re going to be talking about the NeuroBoosterz app but your company is called No Limit Selling, you’re a speaker around the globe. Tell us a little more about your background which led you to create this app.

Umar Hameed: It all started back, it was the late 80’s, I ran a computer consulting firm and I was doing pretty well. Loved it, worked hard at it, had passion for it, then I took up squash and I sucked at it but a couple of months later I got better. Two months later I got better and better, and one day it’s like, “Wait a minute, how come I can improve these massive improvements in squash but in business I’m not doing that?” Someone said, “Go see this woman, her name is Una Elliot, she does something called neurolinguistic programming, NLP.

I go and see this woman and it was a life changing event. Whatever the block was in my business life just disappeared and it was life changing, and I made a promise back then, “Must learn this.” As I’ve been growing in my sales career and my technology career I started picking up NLP and getting a deep understanding of the human psyche, applied neuroscience and my real expertise is in NLP and applied neuroscience. I help leaders and salespeople take charge of their most valuable asset resource, that’s their mindset.

Fred Diamond: Before we go any further, define NLP. It’s come up a couple times on the Sales Game Changers podcast but what exactly is it?

Umar Hameed: NLP is understanding human behavior and how we perceive the world. My favorite definition is the one I came up with. If you have an issue, let’s say, you go to a therapist for 6 months. One Thursday afternoon the therapist says the magic words and you get this epiphany and he fear you had for public speaking disappeared. I’m not concerned about the 6 months of therapy but I’m deeply fascinated by before the therapist said that magic thing, you were stuck and a moment after they said it something changed inside.

NLP is the understanding of the human mindset so you can create that change predictably and you can do it today, not 6 months from now. NLP is mastery over the mindset and it’s been distilled down in such a way. For a second, think about Einstein when he’s trying to figure out the universe and he’s got 21 blackboards full of ugly math. When he figured it out, it went down to E=MC², any high school kid can figure that equation out but NLP is taking this complex study of the human mind and condensing it down to something simple, elegant, powerful that mere mortals like I can understand. It can empower people like you to break through barriers that have been holding you back from being ‘awesomer’.

Fred Diamond: Let’s talk a little bit about how that applies to sales. What are some of the techniques or what are some of the ideas behind it to help the Sales Game Changers listening to today’s podcast take their career to the next level?

Umar Hameed: For example, we’ve all had deals that we’ve been promising our VP’s, “This is going to come in this quarter” and it’s looking on track, and at the last second the CFO goes in a different direction and you lose that sale. For a sales rep, that could devastate them for a day, a week, the next quarter or the next year. On the NeuroBoosterz app we’ve got a track called Rebound and what that does is it takes you through an NLP process in 10 minutes. What that does is it gets you to let go of all the trauma of the loss, it gets you to learn whatever you needed to learn and then it gets you to access your most powerful sales that you’ve ever had in your lifetime so you authentically feel that in your mind, in your body. That allows you to take something that would have traumatized you or stopped you for weeks and it turns it around in 10 minutes. That’s NLP and that’s the power salespeople have now with this app, you’ve got the power to decide how you want to feel and act in the palm of your hand.

Fred Diamond: Let’s talk about the app for a little bit. Again, it’s called NeuroBoosterz and you can download it wherever you can download your apps.

Umar Hameed: Absolutely.

Fred Diamond: You talked about why you developed it, but tell us specifically how it works and how it can help sales professionals get past some of those blocks.

Umar Hameed: When I ask salespeople and I’ll ask you, Fred you’re in sales. Let’s say there’s 200 sales days in a year, how many of those days are when you are on fire, where you’re at your very best self out of the 200? What would you say the average salesperson, how many days out of the year are they?

Fred Diamond: 50% maybe.

Umar Hameed: I would think that’s aiming high because I’ve asked a lot of people and they were saying, “Maybe 20% of the days where I’m on fire, unstoppable. There’s probably 30% of the time where I’m not on par, where I feel less than. A fight with the spouse, a traffic jam, just not in the mood and the rest of the time I’m just normal and average kind of sales thing.” The question is how can we take those average days and give you tools in the app that allow you to access peak states of performance when you need it. It could be that today you’re just feeling okay but you’re going in for the most important meeting of the year, and you can listen to a track on the NeuroBoosterz called Boost Your Self-Esteem. You might go from a 6/10 to a 10/10 in 7 minutes and when you go in to do that presentation you are at the top of the world and you’re unstoppable. That level of confidence translates to confidence in your product in the prospect’s mind.

Fred Diamond: How does that work? Do I go into a dark room somewhere or…?

Umar Hameed: No, just put the earbuds in in the car and it uses NLP techniques to show you how to take charge of your mind. Not only does it take you from feeling 6/10 to 10/10 but it teaches you how to do it so you’ve got it any time you need it. The nice thing about the app, a lot of times we have these amazing tools in sales and life that we don’t use because, “How do I use it again?” When you’ve got the app, it’s like, “I don’t have to do anything.” Plug in the earbuds, hit go on the player and it gets you to access that state. It takes all the barriers that could be in the way of you accessing how you want to feel.

Fred Diamond: I want to go back to mindset as it relates to this. Is mindset just another way of saying confidence?

Umar Hameed: I think confidence is a byproduct of mindset. I was at an event yesterday and somebody was talking about the solution that they provide and they asked people, “Would you like to just test this thing out to see if I’m on the right track?” and then their voice cracked. “You could get it, too” and you could just tell there’s some belief around money that that person has and that caused their voice to crack when they asked for the sale. That’s mindset. In your research you’ve interviewed a lot of salespeople and a lot of sales leaders, what percentage of salespeople do you think do not ask for the sale? They’ll hedge around it and promote the value but not ask, what percentage do you think that is?

Fred Diamond: It’s a huge problem. We did a podcast with a guy named Steve Richard and Steve Richard’s company is called ExecVision, they’ve analyzed millions of sales calls. I asked Steve, “What is the main thing that you took away from listening to literally millions of sales calls?” and he said, “There was never any follow up, there was never the next step.” You’re talking about this final step but it was hardly ever an agreement on the next step of course which is in one case asking for the money, asking for the deal.

Umar Hameed: What’s interesting is I’d say out of all the calls that he’s listened to, let’s say 80% of all those sales reps have had sales training. I’d say probably out of 100% there’s probably 60% that have had multiple sales trainings in their career about that subject. They know what to do, they know how important it is, they know it’s going to make them money but they’re still not doing it. The question is why? It’s mindset, some belief.

When I’m talking to sales reps, you have a room full of sales reps and our beliefs dictate what we do in this world. They dictate our mindset so we get most of our beliefs by the time we’re 7 years of age. We have simple thoughts at that point so the simple sentences inside I had that go in the unconscious, one of those sentences is something like this. I go to the sales rep, maybe a hundred of them and say, “Please finish this sentence for me: salespeople are…?” And somebody will say, “Outgoing, they’re brave, they’re brilliant” and about 6 or 7 positive sentence closers, and then someone says, “They’re sleazy, they’re untrustworthy.” Guess which list is three times bigger? The negative one, because that’s the beliefs in our society around selling.

We see that as something taboo and evil, you’re taking advantage of people but there would not be any of the lifesaving drugs that exist right now if someone didn’t sell it. Those beliefs are sitting in our unconscious and that’s why we don’t follow the sales training. That’s why when our sales manager says, “I listened to your call and you weren’t doing this thing” and a month later they tell you the same thing, you could get fired but the fear of facing your wife being fired is less than overcoming a belief that you have around sales and money in your mind.

Fred Diamond: Back to that, again you listen to the NeuroBoosterz app and I know you have a whole bunch of different options that they can listen to and you can also get them customized as well, which we’ll talk about at the end. How does it change? How does your app make change happen? You just said a lot of our mindset is set when we’re below the age of 7. Maybe your mom says no to you or something and you keep thinking “no” or whatever it might be. How does the app help change the mindset? Because I’ll be honest with you, it comes up all the time. When I ask the sales leaders that we interview on the Sales Game Changers podcast, “What are your tips? What are some things you think young professionals can do?” mindset comes up. Of course, there’s the usual things like passion and preparation and listening skills.

Umar Hameed: What was that?

Fred Diamond: [Laughs] Listening skills, etc. Tell me how the app actively changes the mindset and then, does it rigidly change it? Is it a permanent change or do I keep going back to, “Maybe the guy is going to say no and I’m afraid to ask for the deal” type of thing?

Umar Hameed: Several questions packed into that. Let me ask you right now in terms of happiness, level the happiness 1 to 10 right now sitting now with me.

Fred Diamond: 10.

Umar Hameed: For real, what would it really be?

Fred Diamond: 10, I’m thrilled to be talking to you. We’ve gotten such great response to the Sales Game Changers podcast and I’m a big believer and I’ve seen your work and I’ve seen how you help sales professionals improve. I’m not going to say 5, it’s a 10. Should I say 9 to make it easier? [Laughs]

Umar Hameed: No, I’ll pick a different topic. Bear with me here, listeners – in terms of feeling loved at this moment, scale of 1 to 10.

Fred Diamond: 7.

Umar Hameed: Remind me of your daughter’s name, youngest one.

Fred Diamond: Abby.

Umar Hameed: Just for a moment, I want you to go back to the first time you held her in your arms. Go back there and see what you saw back then and hear whatever you heard back then, your voice, her cooing.

Fred Diamond: It’s great.

Umar Hameed: When you do that, it changes that level of connection and love, right?

Fred Diamond: Yes.

Umar Hameed: What I changed there was not just the thought, but in order for you to feel that feeling, I changed your brain chemistry. Doesn’t that blow your mind? In like 10 seconds we did thatThat’s the power we have to change our mindset in a moment. For the permanent change, going into the sales meeting asking for the sale is going to be really easy to do because you just listen to it before you went in, but underneath that is a belief that’s been driving the old behavior. We all know what our behaviors are because we can measure our results. “I’m not getting enough yes’s in my meetings.” What’s the behavior that’s getting in the way? It could be not asking for the sale or caving in on price, whatever it is. That’s where we stop and say, “I need to change my behavior, I’m going to go get a consultant” or, “I’m going to take a workshop” or, “I’m going to give myself a good talking to and the next time, I’m going to be different.”

The reality is the next time you’re not because underneath every single behavior that counts is a belief in your unconscious that was created a long time ago that’s like a black hole of gravity that locks that behavior in place. Nothing in the world is going to change it, and once in a blue moon we do change it but because we didn’t address the underlying belief very quickly, within a day, a week we go back to the old way of being. Talk to any sales manager. “Umar, you should see us, we had the sales trainer that came in, he was amazing, sales went up” for about a month and a half and then everyone went back to their old way of being because they got new information but they didn’t change the underlying beliefs.

Fred Diamond: That’s pretty powerful, I’m thinking about the example you just used for me and I can see how within a millisecond my mindset had shifted. Especially as I’m going into now an important meeting or something with a customer, a demonstration when I really need the deal, if you will I can see how those types of mind activities can definitely make things change. Again, we’re talking today with Umar Hameed, he’s the Developer of NeuroBoosterz, it’s an app which will help you – how would you describe it again?

Umar Hameed: There’s a better you inside you and this app is going to help you get it there now.

Fred Diamond: Umar, before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors, you’ve been in the sales world for a long time. You’ve led sales teams now in addition to developing the app which led to it. You speak all around the world on sales performance improvement techniques typically using NLP and other ways to change human behaviors. A lot of people like when I ask the sales VP’s about mentors they’ve had along the way. Could you maybe share a story about an impactful sales mentor and how they helped you take your career to the next level?

Umar Hameed: There’s a gentleman by the name of John Evanoff and he’s in Canada. He’s one of my mentors, he is a no BS kind of guy, and what he really taught me was that you need to be authentic and you need to have the hutzpah to do the ask. He truly lives his authentic self and that was a life changing relationship. There’s a lot of techniques out there and I think one of the reasons people have a negative set of beliefs around salespeople themselves is because we think that we need to be someone else to be in that sales mode.

The most impactful, powerful sales leaders that I’ve ever met are themselves, when they go with their friends it’s the same person showing up there that shows up in a really high pressure sales situation, that they don’t take on this, “Hi, how are you? Wouldn’t you like to buy?” They’re just authentic and when you meet someone authentic, you’ve met people like that in sales and outside, there’s just something about being in their presence that you feel comfortable. Our body language transmits so much information about what we’re thinking and often times it does not align with the words that we’re using. People that are authentic, everything lines up and consciously we don’t pick it up for most people but you get that vibe that’s like, “There’s something not quite right about that person.” Being authentic, you get the vibe right.

Fred Diamond: For the Sales Game Changers listening around the globe, this comes up not infrequently on the podcast as well. We’re talking to people typically who’ve had 20-30 years of success and they talk about more sales happening when you’re not selling. You’re telling people, “Don’t be Joe the Sales Guy who isn’t who you are, be who you are and that’ll help you engage, that’ll help you form relationships and that’ll help you be more satisfied.”

Umar Hameed: Just before we go to break, I do a podcast as well. What’s really frustrating as hell is we do the interview and I’m a good interviewer and we have a great conversation, then we turn the recording equipment off and then real magic happens. The person goes, “I should have told you this” and all these rich nuggets come out. What changed when the recorder was on? Mindset changed because all of a sudden you’re off the record and people become their authentic selves and they become more vulnerable. The biggest lessons we have are when we screwed up or when we had doubts. That’s where the real magic comes in and that’s my mission in life, how do we provide that mindset tool kit to people so they can be their best selves, their authentic selves, when they need it?

[Sponsor break]

Fred Diamond: Alright, we’re back with Umar Hameed. Umar, you’ve given us a lot of great information on how Sales Game Changers listening to the podcast can change certain behaviors to take their sales career up a notch and to the next level. What’s the most important thing you want to get across to the Sales Game Changers listening around the globe to help them take their career to the next level?

Umar Hameed: The most important thing that I want to share with people and I hope they get it in their hearts is that change is possible, change happens very quickly, you can make that change permanently. A lot of times people have this notion because our society has that notion that change is hard, it’s difficult if it ever is going to happen. I’m here to tell you with technologies from applied neuroscience, neurolinguistic programming and others that now we have a deep understanding of how to create that change quickly and make that change permanent. Just imagine, people have this idea of what’s possible for them and sometimes their best friends look at them and go, “No, you’re capable of so much more, you’re incredibly awesome” and they just can’t see it because they can’t believe it. I want them to know that change is possible for them and it’s their duty to themselves and the people that they love to be the very best version of themselves that they can be. You’re the role model for so many people and if you settle, you give them permission to settle as well.

Fred Diamond: You speak around the world on these types of topics. What are some of the other topics that you speak about?

Umar Hameed: Primarily I talk about leadership, sales and life but it’s the same talk because it’s all about our mindset and how it stops us from executing. What’s interesting is when I’ve done speeches in Singapore or in Buenos Aires, the issues we struggle with here are the exact same issues they struggle with over there. It’s, “How can I give myself permission to be the best self that I can be? How can I get self-doubt to go away?”

Fred Diamond: Once again, how can Sales Game Changers listening around the globe get access to you?

Umar Hameed: You can go to the app store for Apple or Google Play for Android and you get the app there. You can go to my website at NeuroBoosterz.com and there’s also some demo tracks there you can go listen to right now and take the app out for a test drive.

Fred Diamond: We talked about self-esteem, what are some of the other categories that the app will cover?

Umar Hameed: The first category is designed for salespeople and it’s the sales mindset, there’s about 11 or 12 tracks in different areas of sales. The second one is health and wellness, third one is sleep and relaxation, a lot of people have trouble falling asleep. Then we’ve got transformation, this is changing behaviors that have been stuck for a long time. Then we have life’s ups and downs and I think that about covers it.

Fred Diamond: Give us one final thought.

Umar Hameed: The final thought I want to share with people is this: no matter who you are, there are areas in your life that are important to you, in your sales career that are important to you. “I wish I could be a better leader” or, “I wish I could ask for referrals more effectively” or, “I wish I could serve my sales team at a better level.” Whatever that thing is, as soon as you ask that question, “Why am I not performing at the level that I want, what’s getting in the way?” You know the answer. You may not know how to change it, but you know what the answer is. Just asking that question and keeping that in focus saying, “I would be more confident at this if I could…” Asking that question is the first step to creating change.

What I’ve done with the app is that when you come up with the answer, rather than waiting for a sales trainer or a sales guru to help you at some point in the future, you’ve got the app in the palm of your hand and you can create that change right then and there. The nice thing about the app is people can suggest tracks saying, “Do you have a track that would X,Y,Z?” In which case I would create it for the community and then people can also request custom NeuroBoosterz designed specifically for them.

I’ll give you one example of that before we shut down the show. There’s a gentleman by the name of Doug Miller, in terms of recruiters in the country there’s 330 thousand recruiters in the US. He’s a sales recruiter and he’s probably #48 in the country, super successful. He calls me up and says, “Umar, I wake up every morning at 4:45 on weekdays and 2 days out of the 5 I’m out of the door on a jog at 5 o’clock. 3 days I’m hitting the snooze button. The days that I do a jog I start it for the win, they’re great sales days. The days that I hit the snooze button aren’t as good. Could you help me wake up every single morning?”

We did a 15 minute phone interview and we figured out what’s something that you would not not do? Something that’s an imperative and he tells me what that thing is, we link it in with getting up in the morning in a NeuroBoosterz to just rewire his brain. This was like a month and a half ago and he tells me, “Every single morning I wake up at 4:45, I’m out the door without exception, I can’t listen to your app on weekends because I’d wake up at 4:45 on weekends.” That’s the power of NeuroBoosterz, we can create a specific one for you that’s tuned for your DNA and your situation. That gives me such joy, to be able to give people the power to create change that’s specifically designed for them.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 202: Sales Mindset Development Expert Umar Hameed Says Change is Possible if Sales Professionals Apply These Simple Techniques first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

SPECIAL EPISODE 005: Performance Improvement Expert Ramzy Ayachi Shares Three Ways Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) Will Improve Your Sales Efforts

RAMZY’S CLOSING TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Notice something different about your interaction with your current prospects. Notice something that’s meaningful, notice something where you’re starting to connect with them on a different level than you had before. When you do that, it begins the process of unfolding for you almost a new dimension of understanding. When you have that, now you begin to master yourself.”

On this special episode,we’re talking with mindset and performance improvement expert Ramzy Ayachi. He empowers others with hypnosis and neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) to release self-limiting beliefs, achieve desired outcomes and create resourceful states to achieve peak performance. He’s the chief learning officer at Peak Performance Associates. Prior to getting into this space, he had a 20-year career with the Marines.

Today we’re going to be talking about sales mindset and how you could use techniques and take your sale’s mindset or take your sales performance and career to the next level by really achieving a higher level and more effective mindset. What type of mindset to you need, how do you have the most effective beliefs to ensure that you can take your sales career to the next level.

Find Ramzy on LinkedIn!

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you give us a little bit about your background? Tell us how you got into this space and then let’s start talking about mindset and NLP development.

Ramzy Ayachi: Absolutely. Just like you were mentioning on the intro, I started in the marine core and served. Very interesting career, I did a lot of aviation stuff and I also did a lot of fort air controlling stuff. Fort air controlling is essentially using big planes with big bombs to drop them on targets when your little pistol and your rifle doesn’t work anymore, you call in the big stuff so learning how to control those missions was something that I did, I functioned as, as well as teaching other people to do it. Great time, learned a lot about myself, learned a lot about being in a peak performance mindset.

A lot of the type of activities that I participated in required very intense focus, very intense determination and very outcome-oriented. In many cases, failure was just not an option so you had to learn how to generate the mindset that was going to help you achieve that goal.

Fred Diamond: When did you leave the Marines and tell us about your transition. First of all, thanks for your service, by the way.

Ramzy Ayachi: I appreciate that, thank you.

Fred Diamond: You’re welcome. Tell us again about when you left the Marines and how you made the transition into this space helping not just sales professionals but business leaders as well optimize their performance.

Ramzy Ayachi: It was an interesting path, one that a lot of my peers when they discovered what I was doing, they kind of looked at me strangely and they had an interesting look on their faces, like, “What is it that you’re doing?” Most of them had gone into sectors that looked very similar to what they were doing when they were active duty. I left active duty in 2014 and when I was in that state of transitioning I actually was kind of stuck. I had my own limiting beliefs and it was actually through NLP that I was able to overcome those limiting beliefs, move forward and really in many cases I had become very accustomed to having a regular job, a regular paycheck, all the trappings that are associated with knowing where your paycheck’s coming from.

Fear was a very strong motivator and I discovered that I didn’t like that motivator anymore, so what I wanted to do instead was to have certainty come from within and not from paycheck. Through NLP I was able to overcome that fear, team up with Monica Marusceac and the two of us put together Peak Performance Associates and our other practice as well. It was a challenging time, it was definitely a time that you had to remain focused and a time that you had to become very comfortable with uncertainty, and for many people that is very difficult for them to do. That’s how I got into it. I’d always been interested in teaching, mentoring, I did a lot of instruction, I did a lot of evaluation, I did a lot of mentoring with young marines and also just being a flight instructor during my time in active duty.

For me it was a natural fit, it was a natural evolution and when I came to this, teaching people how to be in charge of their thoughts, how to direct what the outcome was going to be and not feel like they were just on the rapids of life whether it was in sales environment, whether it was in their own professional environment or just people dealing with life issues.

Fred Diamond: Sounds great. Your company has done tremendous work. Let’s get some definitions straight so that people understand where we’re coming from. Two key words that we’ve already used – at least I have a dozen times each – are mindset and neurolinguistic programming, NLP. Why don’t you give us your definition of mindset and then give us your definition of NLP?

Ramzy Ayachi: Mindset I would very concisely just describe it as the focus of your body, and if you think about your senses and how you’re taking information, your five senses, you see, you hear, you feel, you smell and you taste. Your mindset is actually the input that comes into your body and when you’re able to direct what and how it is that you sense the information or how you experience the information, actually. That’s where your mindset comes into play and many people feel like your mindset is just the brain and what it is that you’re hearing or seeing. It’s actually the accumulation of all those senses so when a person is tuned and they’re in the proper mindset, they actually elicit the state, their entire body elicits the state that is directed and focused on whatever that outcome is.

I like to describe it from that perspective. The other question that you asked was what is NLP. If you break down the word itself, just the components of the word neuro-linguistic programming – neuro is of the mind, how people think. Linguistics is actually the study of language, the study of words and the meaning behind words and the effects that come about from words. neuro-linguistic programming is actually a marriage of both, how the brain thinks, the patterns that we all have as humans regardless of whatever the environment is and also the importance of words and how you can help other people create different meaning from what it is that they’re seeing.

There’s a real famous quote and the gentleman is Alfred Korzybski and he says that the map is not the territory. It’s a very clear way of describing that. As humans, we experience what we consider to be something subjective. We don’t know that it is, we feel like it’s our own reality and we feel like everyone else is experiencing the same version of our reality when in fact we’re just experiencing what it is that our senses are telling us and who’s to say that that is actually the reality? So when you understand the patterns that are involved – specifically in this line, the patterns of human excellence – you begin to see how you can change those patterns and then also help people to change whatever patterns they’re having so that they can then change the experience that they’re having in their mindset like we talked about before.

Fred Diamond: Let’s get started. What are some of the things that the Sales Game Changers around the globe need to know to be more effective at sales?

Ramzy Ayachi: Probably the first thing that’s most important is the rapport between the human-human interaction. A lot of people talk about rapport, they say, “Yeah, you need to establish rapport” but many people don’t understand how to do it most effectively and in many cases, just to use the business term, we leave a lot of money on the table by not understanding how to communicate in all the non-verbal ways.

For example, the discussion of rapport. When you use techniques that are NLP centric, you’re actually able to guide the conversation or guide the desired outcome in the direction which is mutually beneficial for both people. You can actually guide an outcome so that it’s win-win, it’s not a 0-1 game, it’s a 1-1 game and when you do that you’re adding a lot more value to your customer, to your clients, to your prospect. You’re also adding more value to your own company that you represent.

Fred Diamond: Give us some examples of what that looks like.

Ramzy Ayachi: One of the easiest things – and many people probably heard about this – is just the simple active matching and mirroring body movements. Some people, they kind of go, “Yeah, I got that.” But understanding it cognitively is totally different from understanding it in your behavior and there’s a certain nuance to matching and mirroring body movements that’s important to understand and it all happens on a subconscious level. Many people feel like everything they’re doing and saying is happening consciously when you actually get the most influence when you’re communicating on a subconscious level.

For example, this is a very common example, if you’re seated across from your prospect and you’re having a discussion with him and it may be an initial discussion and that prospect has got their legs crossed or their hands folded, you begin to match what they’re doing and mirror what they’re doing as well. Matching means that you’re doing some form of it, maybe not the same exact thing. Mirroring means that when they move their right hand, you’re moving the hand that’s directly opposite and mirroring exactly what they’re doing as if you’re looking in the mirror.

What it’s doing – this is not just an exercise and some elementary school game. What it is is you’re actually subconsciously communicating with your client that you care about them. That, “Hey, I get you. Hey, I’m part of your tribe, I understand you.” and they’re processing that on a deeper level where they’re now more accepting to anything that’s following along. That’s the super easy one. Many people kind of clumsily go through that process but it’s so important to master it and it’s just something very easily that you can do and practice and like anything else that you get good at, the more you practice, the more you wire it into your nervous system.

Fred Diamond: Tell us again why that would be helpful in sales, this particular strategy.

Ramzy Ayachi: Sure. Many times when you’re coming into contact with a client they’re going to have all the stuff going on in their life, they’re going to have all the pressures from their initial interaction or their expectations of that conversation and so when you match and mirror, you bring down their level of resistance. You facilitate fewer objections in the initial conversation and you allow any following conversation to be much easier so the act of matching and mirroring what it does is it brings down their objections and whatever pre-conceived notions that they may have towards you, towards your product. And maybe in many cases make them more open to the concept of using what you have to offer and being more valuable than the product that they have in place.

Fred Diamond: OK. That’s a basic level of way that NLP can be applied. Why don’t you tell us some more deeper ways and some more significant strategies that a sales professional can employ to be more effective?

Ramzy Ayachi: Sure. The next one, just moving down the list of the big ones, would be hearing the tone of their voice. For example, when someone’s speaking to you, if they’re speaking very slowly you want to be able to match their tone of voice as well. If they’re breathing in a very slow, methodical, controlled manner you want to do the same thing so you’re physically matching what they’re doing in their body, you’re also matching what it is that they’re saying. The pace that they’re saying, the tone that they’re saying, maybe even the volume that they’re saying. So the person who may be a client, if they’re a person that is perhaps technically oriented and they’re used to speaking like this, you may find it easier to communicate with them by adjusting the volume of your voice as well.

Then if it’s someone who’s more gregarious, more outgoing, maybe a manager that you can raise your voice – not in defiance, but in an effort to match. Again, you’re showing that you’re part of their tribe, that you get them. People and humans, all humans are looking to match with other humans that they are alike with. By just adjusting the tone, the volume, the pace that you speak.

Fred Diamond: OK. Can they be on to you? Meaning like if the customer’s talking slowly, this is our challenge type of thing and then you’re kind of like an upbeat sales person and then you kind of bring it down a little bit, will they know that you’re doing that or does that really not make a difference?

Ramzy Ayachi: It’s something that if it’s very glaring it’s going to be noticeable, it’s going to be a huge distinction. If it’s something where you very in small amounts you begin to adjust and modulate yourself, then it’s going to be something that’s completely imperceptible to them. It’s imperceptible consciously, but it’s very perceptible subconsciously and again just like John Asher’s EQ training, people are interested in what’s in it for them, how’s this going to benefit me. The more you can communicate to their level of the value in it, the more you can begin to shift into their same state, the more you’re going to be able to meet that need for them and lower the threshold for objection, just like I was saying before.

Fred Diamond: OK. How about the next level?

Ramzy Ayachi: The next thing that you can do is you can actually match or mirror the emotion. For example, there’s a client that I had, she got very nervous. She was a real estate agents and as many real estate agents know, a lot of times your first initial encounter with people is over the phone or it’s via internet so it’s somewhat impersonal. Then they meet a client in person at the house for the very first time and it may be that person is someone who is a difficult client, a person that’s very emotional, a person that gets very excited about stuff. In those instances, matching their emotional state is very helpful because it gives people the knowledge that you get them and it gives people the knowledge that, “OK, if I’m acting very excited and very emotional, this person is not going to judge me and they’re not going to stay in this different space.”

Now, from this place and from this matching of emotional states or moods for example, you can then pace and lead someone to a different state. That’s for a different topic, a different day but for matching and mirroring if someone has a lot of objection or someone begins to complain, you can also match what they’re saying and say, “Yeah, you know what? I would be mad too that this heater has not been repaired and perhaps we can figure out a way to wrap this into our contract when we submit our offer” just as an example. I’m matching their emotional state, their frustration with what’s happening with the house and the state of the house.

Then I’m leading them and then I just used a very key word there, I used the word and. And it’s much more effective to use that word – just as a side note – than it is to use the word but, so you want to flow through and carry them to the next outcome that you want which is, “Hey, let’s get the contract in and we can use this for…” whatever that thing is.

Fred Diamond: What should a sales leader be doing and or thinking to make their teams more effective using some of these skills? What should their overall thought be? Should they be devoting week long trainings every month? How could they start to begin to deploy and employ some of the techniques that we’re talking about today to have their sales teams be more effective and have taken their business to the next level?

Ramzy Ayachi: That’s a great question. What we have found is that the best thing to do is to have an initial exposure to this information. One of the best things to do after you have that initial exposure and typically our trainings are one or two days. Some of them are half days of very brief topics like what we’re talking about today, but after that the practice is really where the proof is in the pudding.

The practice would be just as similar as an Olympic athlete. A sales professional is an Olympic athlete in what it is that they’re doing and if an Olympic athlete doesn’t train daily, they’re not going to be good. If a sales professional doesn’t train daily – and when I say train daily, they could just have real quick 30 minutes, “Hey, let me sit down and go over this scenario with you, how would you respond in this? Let’s practice matching and mirroring. Let’s just practice to see what that time difference is and how we can finesse it so it can seem more realistic.”

That’s an ongoing thing. As long as there’s human interaction on a daily basis, you can practice it as frequently as that. The more you practice it, the more it gets wired into your nervous system and that really is the basis of how this stuff sticks.

Fred Diamond: From a sales leader perspective, understanding this, is it something that is going to give them an edge, going to give them an advantage?  Will this replace prospecting skills training or how does this complement how they want to help their team become more effective at the sales process?

Ramzy Ayachi: The process for many people is very conscious work. Step one, get on the phone. Step two, go into your CRM and update your CRM. Step 3, follow up. The work of NLP is the glue, it’s the subtlety, it’s the nuance that complements the process so if you viewed the house foundation and the studs are up and the framing’s done on the home, that is the sales process. And hopefully let’s assume for this conversation that the sales process is intact, it’s a solid home for a lack of a better term. The finish, the fit and the finish and the polish-ness of the interior, the hardware, the flooring, the cabinetry, the carpeting, all that stuff, those very subtle nuances that make the difference between something being rough and tumble versus something that’s very sophisticated, that’s the difference of having NLP incorporated into a training program.

In many instances, the increase in sales has been exponential for people that begin to practice. And again, it’s not something that I they have to invest gobs of time in, they don’t have to invest hours and hours every day. Just a simple 30 minute exercise daily with a team after they have their daily meeting if that’s part of their battle rhythm, they can practice these things and work towards making them much more fluid and skilled. If you viewed it as a language, we’re never done learning. Our minds are never done learning and the moment that we feel that we’ve got it all figured out is when something shows up and it teaches us another lesson. The same thing happens in sales where when people put it into play every day it actually gives them the opportunity to make adjustments and feedback.

Fred Diamond: Ramzy, do you have any examples maybe of where this has worked very well? Maybe a client without mentioning the name if you don’t need to? Can you give us an example of where the process actually did take some of the sales people you’ve worked with to the next level?

Ramzy Ayachi: Absolutely. An IT software team that we were working with, a lot of them were very knowledgeable about the topic and the product and the service but not real comfortable with approaching people and especially this area where we live, there are a lot of providers so there’s a lot of competition. For them, they had to overcome their mindset of, “Oh my gosh, there’s a lot of competition” and the way that we did that was through a combination of conscious work which is a process that we strategize with them and also the subconscious work of allowing themselves to be aware of these subtleties of communicating with other people. One of the things that we noticed as a truism for this team, they began to take the focus off themselves and they began to put the focus on to who they were serving, and when they shifted that focus they became aware of the way that they were sitting and it facilitated their matching and mirroring.

When they took the focus off of themselves, they began to notice the moods that they were in, their client was in and they took that focus and now they’re able to adjust it and keep moving the conversation in the direction of closing that particular sale. When they took the focus off themselves, they began to notice the pace and the tone and the volume of their client. All these things came into play by slowing them down and taking the focus off themselves and then systematically refocusing on their client and with that refocus came the awareness of what actually their client was communicate to them and they were able to then provide value and meet the need of their client in a manner that surpassed who the incumbent was. Once that happened, they got the job.

Fred Diamond: Ramzy, that is extremely impactful, I’ll tell you why. One of the main themes that comes across in the Sales Game Changers podcast is the way you need to distinguish yourself today because of the competition, because of the transforming customer, because of all the noise is by bringing a huge amount of value to your customer that you haven’t brought before. Some of the ways that we’ve uncovered that is by truly understanding your customer’s business and coming to your customer with solutions to help them with their business, not just, “Here’s how my product is going to help you” but, “Here’s some things you could be thinking about” to help your customer achieve your goals with your customer, your customer’s customer, if you will. One of the key ways that we’ve heard through the Sales Game Changers podcast that can make that happen is by being a more effective listener as compared to showing up and wanting to talk about your features and benefits and how you can help them. The shift goes towards how your customer can get more value from the relationship. What you just mentioned is a very succinct and crisp tactic to further embellish that and further make that happen.

Ramzy Ayachi: Absolutely, and if I could just make a refinement to what you just said, it’s about becoming a very powerful active listener and when we talked about mindset before, if you view your body, your entire body and your entire awareness that you’re taking information as essentially an antenna, when you’re completely tuned in on all levels – even the smell, the olfactory sense – you can see so much is not being communicated. When you see all of that, you’re able to then notice where changes can be facilitated for the benefit of your client.

This is most of the time we’re in process mode, we’re just trying to push this ball down the field but we’re not present so our minds are in the future, we’re usually fueled by fear and by worry and, “Oh my gosh, this is not going to happen, I need to keep the pressure on this whole deal” but we’re not fully present with our client. The client will know when you’re there with them, when you’re not anticipating what you’re going to say next. They are very aware of that so it’s extremely important to be an active listener. Not just a listener, but a person who’s listening on all senses and when you have that ability and that mastery, you will be by far and clear head and shoulders in front of the competition.

Fred Diamond: Ramzy, give us some of your ideas, some of your thoughts on how the Sales Game Changers listening can truly be present. Some of the techniques, strategies, tactics that you work on so they can be truly focused on their customer so they can truly bring value and of course, sell more.

Ramzy Ayachi: Absolutely. One of the first things as the actual sales representative, the easiest thing that I would suggest to do that you can put immediately into action is just allow yourself to breathe. It’s that simple. Most people when they’re in the middle of a sales process, if you were to monitor them with very expensive machinery you would notice that their breathing has become very shallowed, become very nervous and they’re actually holding their breath in many instances. The best thing for you to do as a person who is having interaction with a prospect or a client is to breathe and when I say breathe I don’t mean breathe like you’re going to the doctor’s office, I mean breathe like it’s coming from your belly and your belly extends fully and you fully oxygenate your blood. You also release a lot of endorphins and OxyContin in the body and what that does is that relaxes you and the relaxed mind and the relaxed body, the relaxed full version of you is able to hear much more clearly. That would be step #1 for someone who is a sales professional to breathe, let it come through your belly. Let your belly extend first and then your upper chest. That’s step one.

Then for follow-up, once that’s happening, your awareness and your antenna becomes much more perceptive and receptive to stuff, and you can easily put this into action as well: when your client is listening or you’re speaking to your client and they begin to speak to you auditorily, so through the ears, they’re speaking to you and they begin to give you clues. The clues allow you to anticipate what your next step is going to be, and their clue is very simply – this may be the most important thing we say all day – very simply, if they begin when you ask them a question to look up, they’re primarily a person that is thinking about things and visualizing stuff. They’re visualizing solutions, they’re visualizing what’s this going to look like when I have to pitch it to the boss. What am I going to see when I accept this product? If you know that they are a very visual person because their eyes are accessing and queuing upwards, what happens is that you can speak back to them in that same sensory modality.

Now, on a very subconscious level, they’re connected with you again. You re-establish that rapport. A person, again, speaking while they’re looking up, their eyes drift up – and there’s a difference whether they’re constructing an image in their mind like they’ve never seen it before or something they’re remembering from the past, it’s beyond the scope of this discussion – but simply their eyes moving up is telling you that they are a person that says or thinks in images. You can very easily say back to them, so let’s say, you go, “Hey, Fred, what do you think about this proposal that we were talking about?” And your response may be, “Well, I kind of see how that would be helpful”.

My response to that would be, “Well, I can see how it would be very helpful for you. Have you ever thought about looking at it this way? Maybe we can view another option for you.” On a subconscious level, this is all moving under the radar. It’s connecting with you and you’re feeling a lot more like I’m part of your tribe, just from speaking that same language. It would be the difference between you speaking Chinese and me speaking Spanish and not being able to communicate when I’m speaking and saying something auditorily in that example. The next thing in that you can put simply into place is the auditory component. A person, client or prospect who speak to you and their eyes stay either mid-level or they look both left and right laterally, for most of the population, what they’re doing is they’re accessing something that they’ve heard before so a client, when they say something like, “Well, sounds like this is a good idea.”

Your response as a sales professional would be, “I can hear that this really resonated with you”. Now we’ve linked up again on a subconscious level, I’m part of their tribe, they feel much more close to me. Then finally one of the other ones that is very useful is just the active, the client looking down and to the right. So let’s say you’re speaking to them and they look down and to the right. What the sales professional notices is they’re actually accessing something that they feel. The very typical example of this is like a car salesman. A car sales professional will invite their customers to sit inside of a car because once they sit in the car they feel the sensation of being in a bucket seat with genuine Corinthian leather and all the accoutrements of a new car and they begin to smell also the new car smell which has an effect on the limbic system, so all these elements on a kinesthetic level are connecting.

The sales professional will say something back to them like, “That feels pretty good, doesn’t it?” and the client would probably go, “Yes.” As they’re speaking, they’re kind of looking down here recognizing that. These are ways to communicate that are totally under the radar but they’re totally connecting with the client or the prospect and you’re able to keep moving and pacing and leading the outcomes so that’s a win-win situation like we were talking about before. So breathe, notice where their eyes are – up, visual to the side, left and right auditory and then down is the kinesthetic response.

Fred Diamond: Ramzy, you’ve given us some great information today. A lot of the Sales Game Changers listening to today’s podcast, they do most of their sales on the phone. There’s been a big shift where sales of course, moving inside not just for prospecting or the BDR role, if you will, but also sales in a lot of cases has moved inside. How does NLP work on the phone as compared to live? What are some of the differences that the people need to be thinking about out there?

Ramzy Ayachi: That is a great question, Fred. The best thing to do – what’s interesting is you’ll notice, and this is something on the hypnosis side of the business, when the eyes are closed, there is a very large tuning process that happens auditorily. Your body compensates and your body begins to generate stronger awareness in the senses that are available. For example, in the scenario you just described, the client or prospect, you’re doing a phone call, you are more attuned by doing it by repetition to what it is that they’re saying. Especially the tone, the pace at which they’re speaking, the moods, all that stuff can be detected through the phone and it’s easy to make adjustments as based off of that.

Mind you, we’re not getting the visual cues, you’re not getting the kinesthetic queues, but still they will speak to you and even if you’re on the phone and they begin to reveal to you how they process and whether their strategy for buying is auditory, is it kinesthetic, is it visual? A lot of clients even though they’re on the phone, they’ll reveal to you what the strategy is so you can still speak back to them and their same strategy.

Fred Diamond: How about if they’re using Skype or Zoom or something like that? Can you still utilize some of the NLP techniques that we talked about in the beginning? Are there differences that you want to be conscious of if you’re having, again, a Skype type of a conversation with a prospect?

Ramzy Ayachi: In 99.9% of the stuff it’s the same. Actually, you have more sensory input with Skype or Zoom so it just gives you more ability to tune in to what they’re experiencing.

Fred Diamond: Mindset is one thing that comes up all the time, how do you have the most effective mindset to be effective? Ramzy gave us some great advice on how to utilize skills found in NLP – neuro-linguistic programming to take your sales career to the next level. Ramzy, I want to thank you for the great insights you shared with us today. Why don’t you give us one final thought that we need to get across to the Sales Game Changers listening to today’s podcast to help them be more effective?

Ramzy Ayachi: One thing that I would say is that the awareness and the communication that happens between people is so powerful and I think on many levels we try to communicate in such a limited fashion and I want to invite everyone in in some ways a soft challenge for you to allow yourself to notice something different. Notice something different about your interaction with your current prospects. Notice something that’s meaningful, notice something where you’re starting to connect with them on a different level than you had before. When you do that, it begins the process of unfolding for you almost a new dimension of understanding. When you have that, now you begin to master yourself in just like the first step and EQ for John Asher’s course, self-mastery. Once you’ve done that now you can move on to leading other people to do the same.

Fred Diamond: This is really powerful, it really complements a lot of themes that we continue to hear from the Sales Game Changers that we talk to on the podcast. One of the key trends, of course, is how do you provide more value to the customer and how do you be more effective at letting them lead the way, in a way. You’re leading them but letting them lead the process by getting to their needs, getting to their challenges, getting out of you and getting into the mind of your customer.

The post SPECIAL EPISODE 005: Performance Improvement Expert Ramzy Ayachi Shares Three Ways Neuro-Linguistic Programming Will Improve Your Sales Efforts first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.