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Please register for SALES GAME CHANGERS LIVE PANEL: How Sales Leaders are Leading Teams and Customers Moving Forward With Jennifer Fisher and Patrick Devlin on Wednesday, May 5, 2020 2:00 PM EDT here.

EDITOR’S NOTE: Since we conducted this interview before the Pandemic of 2020 hit, we asked Jim what his advice is for sales professionals during the pandemic. He offered the following:

• The evolving landscape is an opportunity to provide clarity of your brand: stay true to your foundational principles and let those guide your decision-making.
• Consistently showcasing your value will help you weather systemic changes. People expend resources – time, money or loyalty – based on its connection to a return on investment. Give them something to value.
• This is the time to qualify and quantify your stretch goals and look at them with fresh eyes. Don’t be burdened by past norms; it’s all a clean slate now. Trying to fit within previous models is a waste of effort, so choose to be bold.

EPISODE 230: Monumental Sports & Entertainment President Jim Van Stone Offers Engagement Strategies For Sports Sales Professionals to Prepare for Arena and Event Re-Opening

JIM’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “This is the time to qualify and quantify your stretch goals and look at them with fresh eyes. Don’t be burdened by past norms; it’s all a clean slate now. Trying to fit within previous models is a waste of effort, so choose to be bold.”

Jim Van Stone is the President of Business Operations and the Chief Commercial Officer for Monumental Sports and Entertainment, the company behind the Washington Wizards NBA team, Washington Capitals NHL hockey team, and other teams and enterprises and the arenas where they play.

Like me, he’s from Philadelphia so you may hear a little bit of Philadelphia coming out through the course of the conversation.

Find Jim on LinkedIn here.

Fred Diamond: Jim, why don’t you tell us a little more about you that we need to know?

Jim Van Stone: Thanks for having me today, Fred it’s a pleasure to be with you, I’ve heard so many great things about your podcast so the opportunity to spend some time with you is fantastic. A little bit about my background, I’ve been in professional sports for about 25 years and started my career in Philadelphia with the Philadelphia 76ers really focused in the sales area. I sold tickets for the better part of 5 years and then got promoted to run the department and ever since then it was really the launch of my career.

I think one of the things in sports like many other industries is to get ahead and get more responsibilities and get promoted you have to move around. I’ve been in Cleveland, I’ve worked for the Cleveland Cavaliers, I spent some time with the Tampa Bay Lightning, the Phoenix Coyotes. I did two stints with the 76ers and the Flyers and then I’ve been here at Monumental for the last 14 years. It’s a little bit of a journey across the country but it’s been a fabulous experience. Most of my career and background has been both in the NBA and the NHL.

Fred Diamond: Tell us what you sell today specifically and what excites you about that. 

Jim Van Stone: My first job ever out of college, I sold telephone systems for a company called Executone. It was a great company, very forward thinking, probably ahead of its game when it came to the digital landscape of telephony but I didn’t really have a passion for it. I grew up playing sports like many people that are in the business and when you take a look at professional sports, everyone wants to be a pro athlete but there’s literally 300 to 500 pro athletes in the world. My best opportunity was really to get involved in it from a business operation standpoint and sales standpoint.

One of the things that I loved about selling tickets is that I felt like I was on the front lines every single day and it was a very transactional sales process when it comes to the ticketing side. You had the opportunity to close deals almost on a daily basis so that thirst for closing opportunities I thought was tremendous and it really helped launch my career. Right now what I do on a day to day basis is help set strategy for revenue generation areas. We have three main core areas that we focus on, one of those is certainly the ticketing business that we have and we have a beautiful building here that when people come down for a Caps or a Wizards game, we have 20,000 people in the stands so it’s a really great opportunity but we have a big sales force.

We work with our ticketing group to set strategy selling a variety of different product lines, I’m also heavily involved in our global partnerships group which sells sponsorships across our entire Monumental portfolio and our portfolio is interesting. We certainly own sports teams, we also manage buildings in the marketplace so collectively the buildings that we manage bring in about 4.5 million people a year through the turnstiles so it’s a pretty big operation from that standpoint. We’re also involved in the media side, we own our own OTT network, we have a big out of home business so we sell integrated sponsorship platforms across many of the different product lines that we have. The final area is our executive seating department which sells our 110 suites that we have in the building, our very many VIP clubs and spaces focused on the B to B community from a business development opportunity. Helping set strategy for those revenue generation areas is critical for us, we also have a big merchandise business that I’m involved in and I think working with al of our people leaders to make sure that they have all the resources that they certainly need is first and foremost my biggest objective.

Fred Diamond: On the executive suite side you mentioned B to B executive suite, so who do you physically sell to and why would someone buy a suite? Give us a little more insight into that.

Jim Van Stone: I think we’ve got a great platform here. We do about 230 events a year, about 3 million people through the turnstiles. I think Capital One Arena which makes us really special is that we’re a mile from the hill, a mile from the White House, really filled in an area that’s heavily populated on the B to B side. Our customers and clients that buy suites are businesses that are looking to grow their business. It’s a great facility for them to host clients, prospects or customers and spend three intimate hours with them at a live sporting event. That one-on-one relationship developing opportunity I think is absolutely tremendous.

We do very well, I would say. Most of our companies are large integrated businesses in the government contracting side, military contracting side but a whole host of different industries that really need that suite opportunity to invest and spend some time developing their business. A lot of the big companies also utilize them for employee incentive programs so that’s another really big aspect of hosting a suite. When you’ve got this private living room of your own in Capital One Arena and you’re watching a great Caps game, Wizards game or a concert, there’s no better way to entertain 20 guests.

Fred Diamond: Again, we have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe. Congratulations, the Washington Capitals won the Stanley Cup two years ago. Does it get easier or harder when the team hits the highlight and wins the championship?

Jim Van Stone: We’ve had tremendous success. It’s certainly the Capitals, the Mystics this year won the WMBA Championship, another great opportunity for us.  I think winning and being a part of something special like that really congregates the community and everyone wants to be a part of it. I think we work really well with other teams in town also and seeing the Nationals win the World Series, I think when all boats are successful it lifts all tides and all the boats rise. It’s a great opportunity to really share in this. Winning certainly helps, but I think more importantly you need to have your strategy based on your business and health of the current time.

Certainly winning allows you to capitalize on some things but I think we also need to be in position when the teams are going through a rebuilding process. I think there’s a lot of strategy and a lot of focus that takes in that and that’s why we have a very large staff. I would say probably over half of our full-time employees that we have here at Monumental, our in revenue generating departments really helping us grow the business and becoming profitable.

Fred Diamond: You mentioned you sell executive suites as well. Who’s the customer for that? Is it marketing, is it HR, is it sales? Who do your people sell to for those?

Jim Van Stone: I would say most of the key and final decision makers are certainly your C-level executives, but I would say certainly the marketing departments, the sales departments are critical from that standpoint. I think they lead a lot of it, I would say probably about 3/4 of our customers that we have are using suites to grow their own business or retain their customers. I think certainly the sales and marketing areas, but I think ultimately it comes down to that C-level executive. Once you get buy-in from a C-level executive, I think that helps get those final contracts signed and get people activated and we have a great on-boarding program. When you take a look at 230 events a year, that’s a pretty big investment from a time standpoint so our job is to make sure that once we get a commitment from a company we do have someone to manage its suite for many organizations. I think making sure that they understand how to manage it effectively is critical and important so we definitely do a lot of on-boarding.

Fred Diamond: You mentioned that you started your career selling telephone systems. Tell us about how you first got into sales as a career.

Jim Van Stone: I graduated with a bachelor’s degree in communications so I think you were either going to do TV, radio or you’re potentially getting into sales if you’re a communications major. I ended up getting into sales and I sold for Executone for two years. My territory was Passaic County, New Jersey up in north Jersey and I went from business to business cold calling. Talk to someone about cold calling of what it was like in the early 90s, you’re banging on a lot of doors and you’re getting a lot of rejections so I think it really humbled you and forced you to be creative in terms of the way you approach the sales process. I found it really rewarding. Certainly when you get told no it’s not a fun experience to go through but I think it makes you better and I think it really prepares you for that next opportunity and I think once you are able to develop a good relationship with someone and you see some success and you get some deals done, it certainly builds your confidence.

Fred Diamond: We’ve interviewed some Sales Game Changers who’ve started their career that way, they were selling copiers or fax machines or something related to telecommunications door to door. What are some of the key lessons you took away from some of those first few sales jobs?

Jim Van Stone: I think just like everyone else in sales, never give up. You never know what that next big opportunity is going to be and you always have to be learning. I think being a student of the game is really critical, learn from other people, learn from the challenges that you face, learn from other industries. Always be learning is certainly critical in that process and not being afraid to fail. You’re going to get rejected quite a bit so I think the more that you can learn from those experiences, re-develop your skill sets, I think it’s going to put you in a much better situation to succeed long term.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about you, tell us what you’re an expert in. Tell us a little more about your specific area of brilliance.

Jim Van Stone: Specific area of brilliance? That’s a tough question to answer. I think one of the things that we do well here at Monumental is I think we really work well as a team and I think working with others is absolutely critical. Building collaboration is really important especially if you are in a sales leadership type of role. We’ve got to work with many other departments, we’ve got to work within the team space, we have to make sure that everyone’s really working in the same common goals to really get us to accomplish what we need to. Collaboration is one of the things that we’ve learned quite well here as an organization, I think it’s one of the things that hopefully I do well.

I think listening to our team, especially also the sales executives that we have there on the front lines talking to customers every single day. We’ve got to be able to hear them give us feedback in terms of what clients want, what clients are looking for, what challenges people may be facing, what opportunities are and I think sharing that amongst the group of things that are working really well is critical and important for us. I think collaborating with the team first and foremost is what I try to do as best that I can on a continuous basis.

Fred Diamond: Again, you’ve been in sports sales, you’ve been selling tickets and related things for over 20 somewhat years now, two decades. You mentioned some of the teams that you’ve sold for, we’re doing today’s podcast, it’s 2020. How has the industry changed? The ticket sales industry, how has that changed from when you started from where it is today?

Jim Van Stone: Across all of our different revenue areas that we have, I think technology has changed everything. When I was selling I didn’t have beautiful programs like Salesforce.com or some of those different opportunities so I think the ability to connect with many more people today really puts the sales process in a completely different situation. When I was selling and just starting like many people in the early 90s I had my shoe box and my tickler file and I was going through that, but I think today’s day and age with technology we’re just really able to deliver our message in a much cleaner fashion. I think we’re able to canvas and connect with many more people than we ever did, I think certainly working with groups like we have an internal business intelligence team that works with us on strategy and analytics about the right customers to go after and we do a lot of lead scoring on that. Today’s day and age technology has really put many organizations in a much better situation.

Fred Diamond: Again, we’re talking today with Jim Van Stone, he’s the President of Business Operations and Chief Commercial Officer for Monumental Sports, they sell tickets for the Washington Wizards, Washington Capitals, you said 230 events per year?

Jim Van Stone: At Capital One Arena we do 230 events a year. We also manage EagleBank Arena at George Mason University, we’ve got Medstar Capitals Iceplex in Arlington which is our trading facility for the Capitals, we also have Medstar Wizards Performance Center in the new Ward 8 area that was just built and that’s our training facility for the Wizards and all of our basketball teams. Plus, we also have our Mystics to play all their home games over at the new 4,000 seat entertainment sports arena. I think when you take a look collectively at all the different venues that we operate it’s almost 450 events that we do on an annual basis and about 4.5 million people through the turnstiles. It’s a great opportunity, I think when our guests are coming to our beautiful arenas and facilities to actually see our teams play, perform, connect with people that they want to connect with, I think it’s an incredible opportunity and it’s something that we really take very seriously.

Fred Diamond: To get to this place in your career you must have had some great mentors along the way. Why don’t you tell us about an impactful sales mentor and how they impacted your career?

Jim Van Stone: That’s a great question. I would say probably one of the most impactful sales mentors that I’ve had was a gentleman named Fran Cassidy who was my boss at the Philadelphia 76ers when I started my career. Fran was incredible at developing relationships, I think the other piece is that he was always very astute at looking at that next opportunity so he took a lot of strategy into the process. Frank came from a background of selling sports memberships and then I also worked with a gentleman named Pat Croce who started Sports Physical Therapist that was sold to NovaCare.

Fred Diamond: He owned the Sixers for a while.

Jim Van Stone: He did. Really great background but they were all about relationships and developing rapport with customers, getting to understand what people’s objectives are. One of the things I remember most about Pat Croce, for example, Pat would say someone’s name the first time he met them literally a dozen times and he was probably the best person I’ve ever seen of remembering a person’s name. Talk about how respectful that is and how it allows you to really connect with someone very quickly, that was fantastic. Fran, on his end, was someone that knew what buttons to push from a sales team standpoint, he knew how to nurture the team, he knew how to get people in their best prepared moment and at the end of the day, he was open to new ideas and he brought in incredible amount of strategies to the position. I learned a lot from Fran and continue to maintain a great relationship with him.

Fred Diamond: I have a quick question for you, a little bit different question. You talked about technology and you talked about all the things that need to happen today for a sales professional to be successful. Relationships, you talk about a guy like Fran Cassidy, I’m sure he had tremendous relationships in Philly with banks, hotels, hospitals, restaurants and retail institutions. Is that still important with what you do today? For someone to be successful let’s say at a junior level or coming into sales, how does that play now with all the technology and the transactional type of technologies?

Jim Van Stone: I think that’s a great question, I think that’s one of the things that we really focus especially with our younger sales team that we have in the thickening area is making sure that they’re continually working to develop that one-on-one relationship. I think sometimes that certainly does get lost with technology, technology is a resource for us but I think still people buy from people they like and people they respect and people that understand what their objectives and goals are.

I think that one-on-one relationship is absolutely critical and I think when you look at our facility here at Capital One Arena with the 230 events, for a given Capitals or Wizards game someone could come down here and have a game changing experience. They can see a Hall of Fame moment that happens and that’s a really personal experience when you’re there live and in person. For us, when we look at all of our guests and customers and they’re coming to see us, we take that very critical so I think getting out to meet as many customers as you can on a game night is important. I think many times people are experiencing some of the events that we have here with other loved ones that they go to games or events with so trying to get to know them on a one-on-one basis I think is critical. I think relationships are valuable and the better relationships that we develop with our customers I think certainly lead to high levels of retention and we’ve been very fortunate that we’ve had high levels of retention for our customers, especially our season ticket holders on annual basis.

Fred Diamond: What are the two biggest challenges you face today as a sales leader?

Jim Van Stone: Certainly with new employees that we have, new reps understanding the process. We all have a journey and there is a runway there and it just doesn’t happen immediately so I think being patient certainly for a younger, newer sales rep is a little bit of a challenge. I think mentoring and working with people on a continuous basis is critical for us. I think the other thing that we have to be mindful of is that what we do in our business to a degree is somewhat of a luxury. We have to take that very serious and I think delivering value for customers is something that keeps us up at night and makes us always push to look at doing things differently understanding how trends change and what that process is in terms of what people’s interests are in some of the sports and activities that we have. Certainly that’s a part of the process that keeps us up a little bit.

Fred Diamond: That’s an interesting thing you brought up. On the Sales Game Changers podcast it frequently comes up that today more and more you need to provide more value. You’ve always had to provide value in sales, but you just brought up value as something that needs to continually be grown. What kind of value? Obviously if someone’s buying a suite or if they’re buying a block of tickets or something they know what they’re getting. They’re going to come for a couple of hours, watch a game, have some food. What more value could you provide to continue to grow your customer base?

Jim Van Stone: I think people want to feel connected, they want to feel like the insider so communicating to clients about the changes that we have on a consistent basis and being very proactive, that is really important. I think the experiential opportunity and making sure that experiential opportunity really builds a connection with our products and also the customer is important. We do some fabulous programs built around some of our biggest clients and even some of our not so biggest clients, we want them to feel connected to the players and feel part of the team. We’re always looking at things that are unique and different and establishing great programs from that standpoint.

This past weekend, for example, our suites department hosted many of our suite holders at Medstar Capitals Iceplex for an open skate program and they had the opportunity to have one of our players come out and do a chalk talk with them so they felt part of the team in that process. I think constantly looking at value opportunities that you can create above what just the ticketing experience is or the game day experience is important.

Fred Diamond: Obviously you’re going to remember the game but remembering the chalk talk with Ovechkin or whomever shows up, you’ll remember that for like 40 years and you bring your kid with you or something. That’s going to stick with you, again, the game is a great experience but all those unique things. Take us back to the #1 specific sales success or win from your career you’re most proud of.

Jim Van Stone: I don’t know if there’s one that stands out specifically. I think we have had some really large deals that we’ve been able to do the last couple of years but I think some of the ones that are most memorable and one of the biggest ones we’ve had was our Capital One Arena naming deal. We’ve had a long term relationship with Capital One and we understood what their values were, we understood what their objectives are and I think when the opportunity presented itself we worked a long time  with their marketing team to make sure that we could put together the right program for them that would deliver value for Capital One.

Customers are really important for them so we worked on a variety of different programs that would allow greater engagements. One of the great opportunities that we have is that if you’re a Capital One card member or bank customer you get discounts on tickets, you get discounts on food and beverage, you get discounts on merchandise. We wanted to deliver value to their end customer so we worked really hard putting together some programs that met a lot of their goals and initiatives. I think that was a really rewarding deal for us.

Fred Diamond: Before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors, again, you’ve been in sales your whole career. It’s very visible what you’re doing, people see the suites being used and they know what it is. Did you ever question, though, being in sales? Did you ever think to yourself maybe you should have gone the communications route back there or something? Do you ever say to yourself, “It’s too hard, it’s really just not for me”?

Jim Van Stone: I don’t know. You’re in sales yourself, Fred.

Fred Diamond: We’re all in sales, my friend.

Jim Van Stone: When you’re in sales and you get a deal done and you close a big deal that you’ve been working on, I don’t think there’s any rewarding experience… It’s like being an athlete growing up and scoring the winning goal or winning basket, that high and that exhilaration that you get still pumps up a lot of sales executives and it’s one of the things that I’m passionate about. I think we all want to win more deals than we lose, but the deals we’ve lost we’ve grown from and we’ve probably tried a different direction as we move forward but I still think getting a deal done gives you that feeling of being an athlete and it’s a great rewarding opportunity. Seeing people successful as a manager I think is even a greater feeling because you’re seeing someone that’s poured their heart and soul into trying to get an opportunity closed and they see success on that. It makes it feel really gratifying.

[Sponsor Break]

Fred Diamond: Jim, we have listeners around the globe. What’s the most important thing you want to get across to the junior selling professionals to help them take their career to the next level?

Jim Van Stone: I think the most important thing is to be open-minded and always be willing to learn new ways and new techniques. I think you have to practice to really customize what your presentation would be or your pitch but I think it comes from hearing a lot of different people and the way they do it and how they’re doing successfully. Always be committed to learning and trying new things. Even with my career, I still feel like I come in every single day and I learn new things so I think if you make sure that you continue to practice, educate yourself and continuously learn you’ll put yourself in a really good situation and continue to grow your career. I think the moment you feel like you’re an expert in one particular area, it’s probably going to pass you by before you know it so I think being open to trying new ideas and looking at different ways to do things is critical and important.

Fred Diamond: Along the lines of that, why don’t you tell us about one of your selling habits that have led to your continued success?

Jim Van Stone: One of the things that we do really well here and I think it is an important part and its probably what’s helped us get some of our deals is that when we approach a deal, it’s just not a one-on-one basis, it’s not a sales rep and the customer. When we go into large pitches we integrate many people in our organization into the pitch so I think having it be approached by a team effort really says to a customer that we really value their investment and their time with us and I think it’s very helpful. There’s large sponsorship pitches that we go in with literally a dozen people, people from our marketing team, people from our social and digital group, people from our business intelligence team, our service department, our sales leadership. I think the more that you can do things collaboratively as a group, it will lead to much greater levels of success so certainly having that team approach. We’re not looking for one hero, we want the entire team to be successful so I think approaching sales that way is really important.

Fred Diamond: Tell us about a major initiative you’re working on today to ensure your continued success.

Jim Van Stone: We’ve been very entrepreneurial as a company and we’ve looked a whole variety of different things. One of the areas that we’ve been really successful at is continuing to grow our media side of our business. A couple years back we’ve launched our own over the top network, Monumental Sports Network, which has been very well received, we’ll broadcast live probably about 500 live sport events traditionally focused in the grass roots area. Certainly high school sports is a big part of that but that’s been a new initiative for us on the media side that I think has allowed us to really think differently about some of the different programs that we’ve done. E-sports is another area, we’ve gotten very active in e-sports.

We own some equity in Team Liquid which is the most successful e-sports organization in the world and we own NBA 2K team and we’re very active on the NHL side. I think being very entrepreneurial in spirit, being open to trying new things is certainly some of the initiatives that we’re working on and some of the things that we want to continue to focus on. We’re always looking at what those next big opportunities would be and one of the big things that’s happening in DC that I think is going to be interesting is sports betting, legalized sports betting. We were the first organization to announce a partnership with a company called William Hill that is an industry leader in sports betting and we’re excited about once they get their application license, about bringing that to the marketplace. We think that’s an incredible opportunity that’s going to help us bring an additional million people to the complex on an annual basis. Being willing to try new things and being very entrepreneurial is really important to us.

Fred Diamond: You mentioned sports betting, you mentioned e-sports, you mentioned some of the new arenas that you’ve opened up in the last couple years. It’s not like 30, 40 years ago when there was one building, you had to fill it, you mentioned media as well so a lot of exciting things. I want to thank Jim Van Stone for being a guest on today’s Sales Game Changers podcast. Jim, before I ask you for your final thought, sales is hard. You have a lot of competition, you’re not just competing with other sports teams in town but you’re also competing with entertainment dollars, you’re also competing with people watching games at home. What is it about sales that has kept you going and what is it that you’re telling your team members about sales to keep them going as well?

Jim Van Stone: What we try to encourage people to do is to look at the big picture. Certainly when you go out and you find a new deal you’re the hunter in that process, so you go out and find that deal but what’s equally important is the relationship side and being a farmer and cultivating them. We think if we can establish a relationship, if we handle it the right way and deliver for customers, show value and deliver great customer service that we’re going to create an incredible customer for life and they’re going to be a fan for life. I think continuing to grow that part and that path is critical for us. Making fans and having people support your teams, I don’t think there’s any greater feeling but when you have a customer that is constantly renewing, wanting to be a part of it or growing their relationship with you, that’s also rewarding in that process.

Fred Diamond: Congratulations, you have a great product, the stadium is amazing, the arena is amazing, all of them are amazing, it’s a great time to be in sports in DC like you mentioned. Not a lot of people have historically thought of DC as being a sports center but the Nats, the Caps, the Wizards have some great players as well and the Mystics, like you mentioned, they won the WMBA.

Jim Van Stone: I personally think that DC is one of the best sports towns in the entire country, I’m passionate about it, we believe in it and the success of the last couple of years has really gone a long way. There was probably an absence of titles in this market for quite a few years between the Capitals, the Mystics and now the Nationals. It’s a really great vibe in this town and community.

Fred Diamond: I’ve got to ask you, though. You’re from Philly, do you still think Philadelphia sports or have you totally made the leap over to everything DC?

Jim Van Stone: I am all Washington, I believe in Capitals, in Wizards and in Mystics from that standpoint. I’m still an Eagle’s fan, tough day yesterday for us but no, I would say I’m all Washington and the Nationals certainly are the prize of the baseball team in this area.

Fred Diamond: Before we break, why don’t you give us one final thought? Again, we have Sales Game Changers, you’ve given us so much great insights here to think about, we greatly appreciate it. Give us something else, give us one final thought to inspire our listeners today.

Jim Van Stone: Be open to trying new things, there’s not one right way to do things. Continue to push yourself, continue to be aggressive, know that we’re not going to win every deal but the deals that we win are going to be big and it’s going to help you as you develop relationships with your clients and you’re going to be able to continue to grow them at a very fast rate.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 230: Monumental Sports & Entertainment President Jim Van Stone Offers Engagement Strategies For Sports Sales Professionals to Prepare for Arena and Event Re-Opening first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

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EPISODE 171: Best-Selling Author Lance Tyson Offers Insights He’s Learned from Training Some of the Most Successful Sales Teams in the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB

LANCE’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “If my job 10 hours a day was to cut down trees, I’d spend 8 hours sharpening my axe. I think that’s where you should be thinking sales-wise because sales is hard today and you’ve got to be on your game.”

Lance Tyson is the founder and president of the Tyson Group.

He also is the author of Selling is an Away Game.

He is an expert on helping sales teams improve their sales game and help sales professionals take their skills and their profession to the next level.

We’ve interviewed some VP’s of Sales for sports teams, Ryan Bringger with the Washington Nats and Patrick Duffy with Monumental on the Podcast.

Find Lance on LinkedIn!

Fred Diamond: Tell us some of the sports teams you’ve worked with and some of the things you do for them.

Lance Tyson: I think it’s an interesting question. Sports are sexy, right? People love to talk about sports, that’s what they talk about on the weekends, that’s what they do on the weekends like you and I were talking about. Earlier before we started the podcast, our sons both play hockey so we were both very immersed in that standing behind a net watching our kids perform. Anytime you bring sports up, people’s ears are up. You’ve had Ryan Bringger on the podcast before and he’s a customer of ours, he worked at the Tampa Bay Lightning, he now works at the Nats, the Nationals here, very, very competent and skillful sales leader. You would think a person that’s been in the industry as long as he has, I think he’s also worked for the Florida Panthers, he’s been around the block, he’s always looking for a cutting edge.

People always ask, “Why do you have to sell sports?” Like anything else, sports is actually something you don’t need. You got to sell suites that could be six figure deals year to year, you sell sponsorship deals that could be a multi-million dollar stadium deal, it’s complex. People don’t need it, it’s something you don’t need so you actually have to figure out who could use it and sell that value. 

Fred Diamond: I want to ask you one quick question to get started here. People are wondering, the NBA Championships are going on so we’re doing this interview in June of 2019. What is a harder gig, selling for the Golden State Warriors or selling for the Cleveland Browns?

Lance Tyson: Interesting enough, both are customers. The Golden State Warriors, for instance, they’re building a brand new stadium in the bay area. The Oakland A’s are our customer and the San Francisco 49ers are our customer, the asking price for their new stadium as good as they are, it’s pretty high and you might say, “Who needs to sell that?”

You’ve got to think about it, companies are looking to entertain and suites and premium seating, it is a tough sale when you look at the numbers they’re asking for. Money doesn’t grow on trees, so I think bottom line is they’re a victim of their own success a little bit. People expect them to ask for higher prices so they take it on the face for some of their constituency, some of their customers. The Browns, ironically enough because we talked about this before, Fred I have a 216 area code number, the Browns are one of our best customers. They’re the most talked about 7 to 9 team in history so at the end of the day I would say if you look at the Cleveland Browns as compared to a lot of other pro sports teams, on the business side of things they’re probably one of the best run sports teams. People measure sports teams by how well they do on the field, I actually measure them in how well they do in terms of B to B practices and they are extremely all one as are the Golden State Warriors.

Fred Diamond: From a general perspective, is it better if you’re a young sales professional who wants to sell sports to be selling for a very successful team or is it better to be selling for a team that maybe hasn’t been in the playouts for 10, 15 years in a lower, smaller market?

Lance Tyson: It’s interesting about pro sports and it’s like probably any buddies that work in the pharmaceutical industry, Cisco, I actually come out of Dale Carnegie training. I would say if I’m going to build my career, I would work for a team that’s not as good because you’ve got to hang your hat on that. If you’re working in pro sports and you’re working for the Golden State Warriors or you’re working for the New England Patriots I might say, “Yeah, you should sell, that’s pretty easy.”

Tampa Bay Lightning are a good customer of ours and they’re pretty successful but all of a sudden you go down and work for the Miami Dolphins a little, it might be a little harder to sell. If I’m going to move my career, I’d prefer to have sold something that’s not as popular because I’ve got a different story to sell but I think that’s like anything in sales right now, you’ve got to tell your story. What’s your own personal brand?

Fred Diamond: If I’m a sales guy working for any team, you mentioned suites, you mentioned tickets. Give us a little insight into what things you sell.

Lance Tyson: If you’re selling sports, if anybody listening has been to a sporting event whether it’s been your favorite college, like you said, you had a relative that was going to Ohio State, if you’re going to go to Ohio State you’re going to sit in the cheap seats, you’re going to sit in club sits or you’re going to sit in a suite. You would sell those things and there are various pricing that you have to look at. You could have a suite for a pro-sporting event in the NFL could be anywhere from $100-$140 thousand dollars a year, they’re sold on multi-year contracts.

If you and I had a business and we were going to go buy a suite to the Nationals or to someone at Monumental with the Wizards or the Caps, we’re going to be spending about $100-$120 thousand dollars a year on a suite for 18 people to be entertained. Your club seats could be $40 thousand dollars, so you’ve got to think about it if you’re on the phone. You’re either selling to a private wealthy individual or a company that’s going to be able to afford to do that or needs to or wants to do that kind of entertaining.

When you look at that stuff, that’s not everybody, that’s a very select group. Then on the other side what you’re selling on pro sports is you’re actually selling what you would call sponsorship that would be any kind of media, any kind of naming rights, any kind of signage. If you go in the outfield at Yankee Stadium and you see the Delta Club that’s being sold, they’re all multi-million dollar deals and those things have to be sold. They’re actually very complex deals, too so in pro-sports there’s a lot of things you’re selling. People think it’s just more tickets, I think where pro-sports teams really make their way is in some of this higher and premium items.

Fred Diamond: If you’re selling suite you’re talking 6-figure type deals, if you will. Talk about the customer for a little bit. If I’m selling 6-figure suite deals, what’s the customer looking for? Why would a customer choose to invest in a team? What are they hoping to achieve, what are they looking for, why are they going to write that big check?

Lance Tyson: I think it’s a few things. If you look at the Tampa Bay Lightning, they call it important relationships to a business. That would be things like vendors and people they’re trying to do business with or prospects, relationships they already have or prospects they’re trying to do business with actually to entertain employees. If you’re thinking about it, they’re trying to save customers or win customers, you’re trying to take care of people that are important to your business. They’re probably employees or vendors, board members, stuff like that, there’s all kinds of reasons to entertain.

I would say this to you: there are certain types of businesses that can afford that so the targets are very specific. Meaning like we’re sitting in a Marriott Hotel here today, I don’t know if this specific Marriott would be a great customer for the Nationals or Monumental when you look at their margins, they’re probably not great because you’re looking at occupancy and stuff like that. If all of a sudden you look at something like a tech company or a financial company, their margins are held a little higher. You’re looking at companies that can afford to do certain things. Interesting enough, a pro-sport selling B to B is a nice to have, not a need to have.

Our business for instance, we entertain the memorial tournaments going on in Columbus, Ohio right now so every once in a while we’ll buy a table and we’ll spend anywhere from $10 to $15 thousand dollars or that. We have tickets to the Columbus Blue Jackets, I don’t have customers that I usually send to pro-sports events but my employees use it, they have tickets to the Brown, stuff like that. That’s the target we’re looking at, beyond people, fans just buying seats. That has to be sold and it takes a lot to be sold, it’s a multi-step process. We do a lot of work in employee benefit insurance business, that’s a multi-step process too, so is selling a couple hundred thousand dollar sponsorship.

Fred Diamond: People like sports, we did the interview with Patrick Duffy of the Monumental, we took a walk around the sales floor and there were tons of young people just out of school. It’s sexy, it’s interesting, you’re going to go watch games, then it becomes hard. What is some of the advice that you work with for sales leaders as they manage a lot of young people fresh out of school as their first job?

Lance Tyson: I think it’s interesting. This is a personal opinion backed up with loose research. We as an organization don’t buy the millennial sales job that watching Good Morning America sells or CNN sells or Fox News where Millennials are soft, they like to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. We think that’s garbage and we see that a lot with salespeople. Last night I played Fortnite with my 21 year old and 18 year old, I can tell you they’re about as competitive as my generation where they chirp each other, they nick each other. I think too, with Millennials is you’re looking at the biggest group of narcissists that probably has walked this planet.

Any group of people that would actually sit in a dark car and take pictures of themselves… Bottom line, I’m not knocking that group because I’m saying our generation probably would have done it, too but all of us on this podcast know that sales is like Doctor Seuss. I think Doctor Seuss said “All the places you’ll go, you’ll play lonely games too, lonely games you can’t win because they’ll be against you.” I think in sales you’ve got to play the lonely game a little bit, you’ve got to compete against yourself. When you’re hiring a salesperson or you’re going to be in pro-sports, you’re going to play a little bit of lonely game. You’re going to compete against yourself a lot and the person next to you and it seems great.

I’ll give you for instance my nephew, Kristoffer Boyd, he works with the Philadelphia Flyers and he worked for me for a summer and he goes, “Hey uncle Lance, I want to go pro-sports” and I go, “Why do you want to go pro-sports?” and he goes, “Well, I went to the Browns with you a couple times and I thought it was cool, I played college Lacrosse and Gwynedd Mercy up in Philly.” I was like, “Alright, you’re willing to move?” He goes, “No, I kind of want to stay in Philly.” I said, “So you’re not fully committed yet” and he goes, “Right. I want to work for the 76ers.”

I go, “They’ve got a really big sales class, why don’t you go work for the Flyers a little bit? Smaller, maybe you can compete a little bit, spread your wings” and he’s done really well but he’s starting to realize he’s competing against folks that want to be in pro-sports. There’s a lot of kids that go get pro-sports degrees, they get sports management degrees. I call them sometimes underwater basket weaving degrees. Sales people are built, they’re not born, we can build a salesperson, we can take a person that’s good impromptu, good with people skills. You’ve got to look for is somebody that’s competitive, I think millennials are competitive, I think they take care of themselves a little but I think that’s great for sales, I think they’re going to get rejection, they’re going to be praised when they do well and when they do well they’re probably going to get some feedback. That’s the gamification effect of this generation, gamification says, “Tell me if I did well or tell me if I didn’t do well, just don’t tell me that I did great.” I think that’s what salespeople look for, so I think that’s important.

Fred Diamond: I got a couple questions. Again, we have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe to today’s podcast. You were just talking about your nephew, you suggested he go to the Flyers. Would you suggest that they go into the professional, try to get a job with the Flyers or Warriors or something like that? Or maybe they go sell for a double-A baseball team where they’re doing everything.

Lance Tyson: That’s a great question. My favorite exec in pro-sports – and I’m going to make sure everybody listens, I’m not going to botch his name up – his name is Kerry Bubolz. Kerry was the former president of Business Operations, business for the Cleveland Cavaliers, now he’s the president of the Vegas Golden Knights. Kerry, Oklahoma kid, grows up selling double-A baseball and stuff, grinds in, gets a ring at the Caroline Hurricanes in the 90’s. The young professionals I see that come up through a smaller team, they’re the ones that have worked the hot dog stands, sold some concessions, took the trash out, stuff like that, they’re entrepreneurial.

Fred Diamond: Wear the mascot uniform.

Lance Tyson: It’s kind of hustle, right? When they come up into the bigs, they appreciate it. I was just on the Miami Dolphins last week and there’s this one young sales rep that I just loved, just had a lot of elbows. This pushed back on me a little bit, wasn’t afraid but after talking to him I knew that he had hustled at the minor leagues, loved them because I think they get it and they appreciate it. I tell people in pro-sports all the time, “We can send a dog out with a pencil in its mouth and an application tied around its neck and find people that want to work in pro-sports so get over yourself at some level.” How many people, if they knew they could work in a pro-sports team would say, “Yeah, I’m in”?

Because I think again, it does have that sex appeal to it. I do like the grinder and pro-sports sales is like a lot of sales we’re doing right now, you’re going to have to grind. People are not picking up the phone these days, we have the cliché that you’ve got to work harder, you’ve got to work smarter, you’ve got to have that connectivity, all kinds of different ways in.

Fred Diamond: Lance, before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors, again you’re a finalist for an Institute for Excellence in Sales award for some work you had done with the Houston Rockets. Can you tell us a little bit about that and that story and what got you here?

Lance Tyson: The Houston market obviously is one of the top 5 markets of the country and it’s the biggest 3 team market in the country because they don’t have hockey, they just brought MLS down there, just hired an awesome VP of sales. I think that’s her title, Diana would kill me if I didn’t know it but she came from the Caps and now MLS has become a top 4, top 5. You’ve got the Rockets, you have the Astros and you have the Texans. The Rockets and the Texans are both customers so you look at that arena, the Toyota Center, it is an older arena.

They’ve pumped some money into it but you’re in a day and age right now, just go in the DC area, you’ve got newer ball parks, you’re competing with that all over the place so you’ve got a dinosaur if it’s 15, 20 years old. They had to do a lot with it and there’s a gentleman named Jason McGuinness who worked for the Cowboys, worked for the Phoenix Suns and he just left the Rockets after we wrote a white paper on it just recently.

He was really looking for a way to sell these premium products and they hadn’t done a ton of updates and they had to hit that market. They had suffered years when the gas and oil industry was down, that was their bread and butter. We started to work with them, we did a strong analysis on their salespeople and we said, “Here’s what you have in terms on sales professionals” and we’re pretty big on saying if you have a duck, you have a duck. If you have a duck and you’re trying to make the duck an eagle, you’re just going to piss the duck off.

That doesn’t mean the person’s not good, but you may be dealing with somebody that doesn’t have the skill set to negotiate without parameters, or you may have somebody that doesn’t do a good job of questioning with a swift level of interest and we measure that stuff going in. We’re able to assess where they are, look at their business practices, make some changes and then add some other process that helps them with the folks that maybe weren’t as most skilled. That’s the initial work we did with them.

Fred Diamond: Lance, I want to ask you one quick question before we take a short break and listen to one of our sponsors. When we come back, we’re going to ask you for some of your tips. Do you have to be an athlete to be good at selling sports? If I was a good high school pitcher or a college pitcher or even someone from the pros, is that going to be a good transition, have you seen?

Lance Tyson: I think only from an attitudinal standpoint. I don’t know if I’d necessarily like the star athlete, I might like the person that had a little chip, the person that didn’t make the team, the person that had to come back from a torn labrum or a knee reconstruction, the person that maybe had to work that way. In the first chapter of our book we talk about grit and there’s a great book out there on grit. We believe that there’s a level of grit that you need in sales because let’s face it, if you’re going to be the best of your game in any kind of sale today, you’re 25% maybe 35% closing ratio, the rest of the time you’re a complete failure. You better be okay with that.

Fred Diamond: I worked for a company called Compuware in the late 90’s and Compuware was founded by Pete Karmanos who of course owned the Caroline Hurricanes. He would bring in hockey players, Kris Manery was guy who was a VP of sales when I was there, smart dude, went to the University of Michigan I believe, I’m not quite sure. Pete’s thought was, “If you played hockey, you’re out there at war, you know what it’s like and you’re going to be fighting for the team.”

Lance, what’s the most important thing you want to get across to the junior selling professionals listening to today’s podcast to help them take their career to the next level?

Lance Tyson: #1, you’re going to have to get some really direct feedback on how good you really are. I think what’s happening right now is there are very simplistic sales and there’s complex sales and not everybody’s built for the same. I think when we were talking about some folks that you and I were elated for, there are some people that were just built for a transactional sale and there’s people that are more built for a complex sale.

Sandy, my Senior Director of Business Development is sitting here close by and we were talking about a person at dinner. She grew up in the training business selling against who is just completely a process-oriented salesperson, if this than this, her name is Chris. I don’t think everybody’s built for that but I think there’s another group of people that are really good at rapport. They’re good at kissing babies and shaking hands, that doesn’t necessarily get it done but that can be part of it. I think it’s a perfect blend of a junior salesperson looking at, “What am I good at as it relates to dealing with people?” and read the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. You want to get good at that? Just read Dale Carnegie’s book and figure it out. If you think you’re good at dealing with people you probably should actually read the book, right?

Fred Diamond: Why don’t you tell us about a habit or two that you thinks sales professionals should take to be successful?

Lance Tyson: I think habit #1 is salespeople are unbelievably bad planners. They’re just bad and the reason why we know that is when somebody gets promoted into sales management and she was the top salesperson, the #1 they struggle with is planning and your ability to sit down and look at your week and where you’re going to spend your time. I think the one habit I’d recommend to all the salespeople that worked for us – and I manage about 5 different salespeople in my team, they’re called Pomodoro’s.

It was a concept built in the 80’s that says you can focus your time for about 25 minutes. I think salespeople today need to be very focused in certain amount of periods of time, hyper focused, put the phone down, social media down, you’ve got to get good at that because you’ve got to do certain things. That’s one thing I’d be really good at.

I think the second thing – this is going to be a little cliché – they don’t sell listening aids, they sell hearing aids. I think it’s a hell of a big difference between listening and hearing. I just had a coach, one of my young social media guys on my team today, his name is Daniel. Him and his boss and I sat down and he was a little frustrated and I said, “Daniel, I struggle with how coachable you are” and he goes, “I’m a great listener.”  I said, “That has nothing to do with being coached. You are a great listener, you’ve been taking notes the whole time we sat down and had breakfast here this morning.”

He goes, “Why do you say I’m not coachable?” It was a rough, sharp snap right back and I appreciate it. I said, “Because we’ve coached you on the same things multiple times and you’ve never been able to execute on it. You’re a great listener, you’re just not coachable.” I think it’s a difference and I think everybody on this call has to make a couple decisions there.

Fred Diamond: Before we ask you for your final thought, you brought this up a couple times, sales is hard. People don’t return your phone calls or your emails, why should someone continue? What is it about selling sports as a career that you’d recommend people look into?

Lance Tyson: This is what I say: if you can’t keep playing it, why don’t you just jump into it? People ask me all the time, “Why are you in sports?” Well, sports is fun, I say to sports salespeople all the time, “Look, here’s the alternative, you could be selling funeral homes.” At the end of the day, how cool is it to go out there every day and show for a game and take it in, drink it out of the cup?

I don’t think sports is something that a lot of people are going to spend their whole careers in, you take a Ryan Bringger who’s been on here, he’s risen to the top of his craft. That’s why he’s moved on from great organization to great organization and he’s the Vice President of Sales, he was slinging tickets at one time. One out of three make it in sports, two out of three fail and they’ll be out of pro-sports in two to three years. I think it is a shot and they are always looking for good salespeople.

Fred Diamond: It’s a grind, man.

Lance Tyson: It is.

Fred Diamond: Let me make sure I ask this next question the right way, you have to sell a certain number of tickets, a certain number of suites, there’s a number you have to reach. Do you think you’ll be more successful if you’re a relationship builder or a problem solver? A lot of times on the Sales Game Changers podcast I’ll say, “What’s your tip?” “Be a problem solver” or, “Be a relationship builder.” “Be solving problems for your customer.” Is that a successful strategy to take if you’re selling sports or is it really about you’ve got to sell five suites this week, crank away and figure out a way to get those suites sold?

Lance Tyson: I’m going to answer it probably a little differently because I’m not a big believer in the word “relationship builder.” I think relationship is an outcome, it’s not something you can do, it’s actually something you get. I think in some circles when you say somebody’s had relations with somebody that’s actually a dirty word, I think we should all think about that. I think there’s three things if you’re selling sports but I think if you’re listening to this and you’re selling financial services, there are three things that have to happen to you and how you have to view yourself: your ability to build rapport. I can go through a Wendy’s drive-through window and have rapport.

Two, are you credible? Rapport yields influence, credibility yields trust and the last thing at some level and it’s an equal hour triangle, you have to show that you understand who you’re talking to. I think when you have those three things and equal out or balance, you’re going to win. I think that’s anybody listening here, that’s what we tell anybody in pro-sports. That would be my advice.

Fred Diamond: Give us one final thought to inspire our listeners today.

Lance Tyson: When I was at dinner prior to this podcast, if you’re listening Fred and I were trying to get our time set today. I was at dinner and my 18 year old texted me and said, “Hey, the Springfield Junior Blues asked me to come to their main camp.” My son’s a junior hockey player, he’s 18, just graduated school and he goes, “What do you think?” and I said, “What did you tell them?” He goes, “I called them and they invited me and I told them my plans.” I said, “Your older brother played Springfield, there’s nothing Springfield.” He goes, “I know.” I think about my time that I spent in Springfield visiting my son Zack, my wife and I would go to Lincoln Presidential Museum. If you ever get a chance, go. I’m a history guy at the end of the day, I remember walking out of that presidential museum and there’s a quote from Abraham Lincoln that said, “If my job 10 hours a day was to cut down trees, I’d spend 8 hours sharpening my axe.” I think that’s where you should be thinking sales-wise because sales is hard today and you’ve got to be on your game.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 171: Best-Selling Author Lance Tyson Offers Insights He’s Learned from Training Some of the Most Successful Sales Teams in the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.

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EPISODE 027: Monumental’s Patrick Duffy Is a Wizard at Helping Companies Maximize Their Sports Marketing Investment

Patrick Duffy is the senior vice president for global partnerships for Monumental Sports & Entertainment, headquartered in Washington, D.C. Patrick is a graduate of Florida State’s MBA program. He joined Monumental in 2014 and oversees marketing partnerships for all of Monumental Sports’ properties, including the Washington Capitals of the NHL, the Wizards of the NBA, the Washington Mystics of the WNBA, and the AFL’s Washington Valor and Baltimore Brigade, as well as the NBA’s e-sports venture, NBA 2K.

In addition to sports properties, Monumental Outdoor and Monumental Sports Network’s Partnership Marketing fall under Patrick’s management. Patrick has a long track record of success throughout the sports industry. Prior to his current role with Monumental, he served in a leadership role with the Tampa Bay Lightning and also with the New York Islanders earlier in his career.

Find Patrick on LinkedIn!

Patrick Duffy: I grew up as a lifelong sports fan, so I am fortunate enough to be in this industry and really the sales profession as a whole. It has been an absolutely fantastic experience here at Monumental and having grown up in Long Island, New York, and I had spent some time in Florida as you mentioned. I have four little girls, so balancing that with the career in sales and in sports is always a challenge but a lot of fun along the way.

Fred Diamond: Have the girls been on the ice yet with sticks?

Patrick Duffy: They have. Still working to get them up to the level of what we see on a regular basis, but they love coming out to games. They’re very fortunate with the great ownership group here that supports the work-life balance, and being able to get them out to sporting events is a lot of fun. It’s great to see them grow and enjoy what I enjoy as well.

Fred Diamond: You sell things that are fun, but I know in the sports industry it’s sometimes very hard to sell partnerships and tickets when the team isn’t doing as well or hasn’t done well for a while. Of course, it’s always good when the team’s doing really well. But let’s talk about your career. I’m excited to learn a little more about you and some of your evolution and lessons that you learned. Tell us a little more about what you specifically sell today and what excites you about that.

Patrick Duffy: For us, we offer brand engagement through sports and media properties, so it’s a really unique opportunity and an exciting atmosphere. In the landscape of the world today, where I think we really are able to cut across the grain is that live sports has really become one of those few things that you have to consume live.  For us, to be able to really engage brands and story-tell during that moment is really impactful, and you really make a measurable impact for folks.

Fred Diamond: Take us back. How did you get into sales as a career?

Patrick Duffy: While I was at Florida State I took an internship with a minor league hockey team in town. I really didn’t realize that sports is a part of the business world and there were opportunities there. I did a little bit of everything from slingshot T-shirts on the ice to literally pick up the Yellow Pages and call companies, or individuals in some instances, to buy tickets to the games. I recognized that I’m really passionate about sports. I’m not fortunate enough to be out on the ice or the court. I don’t have that level of expertise. I then cold-called just about every NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball, and NFL team and landed an opportunity with the New York Islanders, which was exciting for me having grown up in Long Island and now having the opportunity as a first job out of college to go back home and work for the team that you grew up admiring.

Fred Diamond: Now you’re working for some of the biggest brands in sports. You’re working for a great ownership team. You’re working for some teams that have a lot of loyalty amongst the fans. But you mentioned you we were working for a minor league team back in Florida. What were some of the key lessons that you learned from some of your first few sales jobs that have carried with you through today?

Patrick Duffy: First and foremost, work ethic is key in the sales space. I think when you look at it, your hustle is controllable. Ticket sales is really a volume-driven business, as is a lot of different sales roles, so that was something I really took to heart. I really just tried to benchmark myself against the rest and really push as hard as I can.

Fred Diamond: You’ve been in sports marketing your whole career. Tell us a little more about what you’re an expert in. Tell us a little bit more about your area of brilliance.

Patrick Duffy: For me, it’s really working with various brands and our team as well. Just getting out in front of various key partners, both prospective and current, and really getting to know their business and listening. A big part of what we do is learning and listening in trying to put together a compelling story of how we can intertwine their brands with ours to really meet their objectives and goals and, at the end of the day, drive the business for them moving forward.

Fred Diamond: Tell us a little more about sports marketing. Do your calls get answered right away because you’re calling from Monumental and you’re representing an exciting group of products? Or do you have to work hard to get in the door? How does the balance work these days?

Patrick Duffy: It’s not a lot of inbound. It’s outbound, so it’s very similar to a lot of other industries. Certainly there is a bit of cachet to the sports industry, but not everybody is a sports fan by any means, so we work with people who are sports fans. At the end of the day I think everybody values a strong audience, so that’s really what we try to focus in on and make sure we can tell a compelling story of what we can deliver. It’s a lot of outbound and heavy effort, but at the end of the day, kind of what is to be expected in the sales space.

Fred Diamond: Another question, going off course here, but a lot of people listening in are going to be sports fans, because if you’re in sales you’re probably competitive and you’re probably following some teams. Is it the sport you’re selling? At the end of the day, what are you selling to the customer? Is it the sport, is it the association? What is the thing that really resonates with your customers that you found in your career in sports marketing?

Patrick Duffy: I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily the sport. I mean, it’s certainly part of it, but it’s really the audience. When you’re looking at sports, at sports teams in general, attendees will be coming to a game. Generally you have to have discretionary income to be able to afford tickets, and you’re usually very passionate about the teams and brands, so you certainly want to tap into that. If you’re a brand that’s definitely attractive… I think it’s the audience and the demographics of that audience. That’s what we really try to foster, not necessarily lead with the sport itself. That’s part of the overall experience and what we can deliver but not the core of it, so to say, from a deliverable standpoint.

Fred Diamond: You’ve mentioned your customer a number of times. Who is your customer? Who are you trying primarily to sell to?

Patrick Duffy: We work with just a number of brands across various industries and categories, so we try to align with really great partners whose goals and objectives and values match ours as an organization. We try to be very thoughtful on who we approach in various industries and try to align with those folks and also work with other brands that are really trying to grow along the way. We’re fortunate with a number of properties here, from hockey to basketball to football to women’s sports—lots of different avenues that we can look at and our media property as well, with our digital network and our out-of-home space. So there’s lots of different avenues that we can go with things. It’s great to have a lot of tools in your tool belt.

Fred Diamond: Patrick, you’ve had a nice long career here. Tell us about an impactful sales career mentor and how they impacted your career.

Patrick Duffy: I’ve been fortunate during my career to work with a lot of great people. Here at Monumental, ownership is great, so it really starts at the top and certainly I glean a lot off the vision of the ownership team. Here at Monumental, our team president and I work together every day. Jim Van Stone is fantastic, and every day I learn more and more. In my years in Tampa, head of our team Ron Campbell and Sean Henry in particular were fantastic. Sean’s the CEO at the Nashville Predators now, somebody I keep in contact with on a regular basis, sharing ideas, and just someone I really learned a lot from in my earlier career.

Fred Diamond: Very good. What are the two biggest challenges you face today as a sales leader? You’ve been doing this for probably close to 20-some years. You’ve probably seen things change. What do you think are the two biggest challenges right now as a sales leader?

Patrick Duffy: Proving the metrics is very important. Obviously buyers and partners these days are very sophisticated. I think in the old days of sports, it was just the cachet of being involved with a team that was the big driver. Now you need to have measurable results. Marketers need to prove that the investment they’re putting forth is rewarding and fruitful. For our end, we’ve really drilled in deep on the business intelligence side and grown that end of our business to ensure that we’re driving measurable results for all of our partners out in the world today.

Fred Diamond: Take us back in your career. You’ve had some great successes. Tampa Bay, of course, won the Stanley Cup when you were there. What is the number-one specific sales success or win from your career that you’re most proud of?

Patrick Duffy: Stanley Cup was a heck of a lot of fun. You certainly feel a part of that being within the organization… You certainly felt part of the team, so it helped me get and replicate that here in D.C. with our teams and reach that championship level as well.

Specifically on the sales side, some great experiences were in Tampa, where I wore a lot of different hats during my 10 years there and had some success while I was overseeing ticket sales. We had brought on a really big partner to oversee one of our big entitlement spaces there when it wasn’t really my necessary role. It was more about driving our teams to sell more tickets there. It was nice to step outside your space and show your merit. That’s kind of what further grew my career, really showing that ability to not only do a great job at the role that’s in front of you but also being a team player and driving results for the organization as a whole. In recent times, our new naming-rights partnership with Capital One that you mentioned at the top is phenomenal. It’s something that we’re deep in the process of getting off the ground, and it’s going to have lots of benefits for both partners, which is what you love to see in a true partnership, so we’re excited about that.

Fred Diamond: Another question here from a sales perspective. You were with the Tampa Bay Lightning when they won the Stanley Cup. Was the next year easier or harder as a sales professional?

Patrick Duffy:  I think my perspective on that’s different than most. With the Tampa Bay Lightning and us winning in ’04, the next year was a lockout. That was extremely challenging. The upside was we had the Stanley Cup for two years, but at the end of the day that’s a tough thing because it’s out of your hands and out of your control. We were trying to bridge that gap with the uncertainty of when we were going to be back. Is it going to be tomorrow, next week, next year? Ultimately that year was cancelled, and we had to wait until the next year to come. It was a different environment, not normal. But I would say for most, in the normal environment of having a championship success, usually the next year is a fruitful year.

Fred Diamond: I want to ask you a question about that year. As we talk to a lot of these sales game changers, it seems that most people have had a nice straight career. Most people that I’m interviewing have had a great ascension from a great company to a great company to another great company, continued success. But we all know the line of sales success has waves and things like that. Here you are. You’re a sales executive, and all of a sudden you don’t have a product to sell. What did you do that year? What was that year like? You just had the highest of highs. You won the Stanley Cup, the biggest prize in sports. Now there’s a lockout. There’s this trust customer. They don’t know what’s going to happen. Do you mind telling us a little bit what that year was like as a sales professional?

Patrick Duffy: Yes, that year you really had to become a psychologist on top of a salesperson, so to say. It was a lot of just trying to keep up on progress even thought it was drips and drabs and update the group and certainly sell the hope that the season’s going to be right around the corner. It was an evolving process. Certainly a week or two in is not bad. A month, it starts to get a little bit more uncertain, and then once that season finally was cancelled it was pointing to the fact that we’ll be back quickly thereafter.

In Tampa, we were fortunate. We had an Arena Football League team there too, with the Tampa Bay Storm, so we shifted some efforts towards that other product. Revenue lines weren’t certainly as large as what the NHL team was, but it still added some focus towards that to keep everybody busy and bridge the gap a little bit.

Fred Diamond: You’ve worked for some great brands. You’re working for one of the biggest brands in sports and entertainment right now. Did you ever question being in sales? Was there ever a moment where you thought to yourself, “It’s just too hard” or “It’s not for me”?

Patrick Duffy: Not really. What I love about sales is there’s always tomorrow. I’m not one to give up very easily. You’re not going to hit a home run every time along the way, but the way I look at it is, if your effort’s consistent and you’re methodical in your process, you’re going to see those results. You may go through the ups and flows—I think any salesperson does—but let’s keep a positive outlook at the end of the day. I think I’m always optimistic that the next day will be better than today.

Fred Diamond: Patrick has been talking about understanding the brands that you’re trying to sell to and what their initiatives are. He also talked about how the buyer has changed and the fact that you now need metrics. You need data. You need information to prove to them that their investment in your offering, in this case sports and entertainment branding and partnerships, is critical. You have to become more intelligent about providing information to a sophisticated buyer.

Patrick, I want to get some tips from you now for the sales game changers listening to today’s call. What’s the most important thing you want to get across to junior selling professionals to help them improve their career?

Patrick Duffy: I think work ethic is key in the sales space. I think coming in at a junior level you need to out-hustle folks. Certainly that’s controllable. As you out-hustle people you’re certainly going to learn along the way. And then you can start to outsmart people, so I think I’ll hustle out of the gates and then I’ll outsmart people down the line.

Fred Diamond: I have to imagine you have a pretty high-profile position within your organization as the global partnership sales VP. What are some of the things that you do on a daily basis or a weekly basis to keep your saw sharpened?

Patrick Duffy: From my end, I try on a regular basis to talk to other counterparts across the industry, gleaning ideas from other folks. We are fortunate in the sports leagues to have a number of people in other cities throughout the country, so certainly I have a close group of folks there that I’ll bounce ideas off and hear their perspective as well in regards to what they may be experiencing. Also attending a number of key sales conferences, whether industry specific or not industry specific, to try to get out as much as possible amidst our normal schedule here to make sure we’re keeping everything sharp.

Fred Diamond: What’s a major initiative you’re working on today to ensure your continued success?

Patrick Duffy: For us, it’s continually looking at how do we advance the ball and staying out in front of the game. We have been fortunate as an organization, even in my three-plus years, that we’ve grown a lot here. When I arrived it was just the Wizards, Capitals, and Mystics. Since then, we’ve added two arena football teams because we love arena football so much and we wanted to double down, so we added a team here at Washington that plays at Capital One Arena, the Washington Valor, and we added the Baltimore Brigade, who plays out of Royal Farms Arena in Baltimore, so very exciting there.

We expanded into the e-sports space with NBA 2K. We’ll have our own franchise that’ll play in an e-sports platform, so very unique, very interesting. That’s the space that’s ever-expanding and growing at just a tremendously rapid rate—a different demographic there too, which is exciting. Our out-of-home business has grown by leaps and bounds in the past few years, so that’s something we’re continuing to grow. That’s just a little bit more transactional in nature, where you’re looking at eyeballs and what that’s generating—a little bit different than what we do on the sports-properties side.

And then, another area that we’ve grown on the media space is our Monumental Sports Network. We’re the first team in sports to launch into an OTT platform from a regional perspective. It’s been tremendously successful, and we’re really trying to drive a lot of partners through that space. We are focusing on our Caps, Wizards, Mystics arena football products but also youth sports and high school space, so really growing that reach and hitting another level there as well. The way that we’ve tried to stay out in front of things is “What’s that next step?” We’re not risk-averse, and we want to get involved in things and be out in front of the curve.

Fred Diamond: Patrick, sales is hard. People don’t return your calls or your emails. They have a lot of options. Why have you continued? What is it about sales as a career that keeps you going?

Patrick Duffy: I look at sales and the space that we’re in, every day is a new day. You’re working on a million things. You don’t know the next door that’s going to open for you. That’s exciting. It’s exciting to see partnerships that you launch, to see the things come to fruition that you hoped would, so really working hard to make sure that that’s accomplished is exciting. What I really love about this space is it’s not stagnant. It’s not doing the same thing every day. It’s a new thing every day, and there’s always room for growth which is exciting.

Fred Diamond: Give us one final thought to share with the sales game changers listening in to help them take their career to next level.

Patrick Duffy: Something I truly believe in is if you can align your passion with your profession, that will truly set you out for success. I have been fortunate enough that I’ve been able to do that. But no matter what industry you’re in, if you can really home in on something you’re personally engaged with, I think that’s something that can really add that extra twist to make it even more exciting and probably up a level and percentage of success. It’s something that I certainly keep focused on, and I’m fortunate to be in the space that I’m in.

Produced by Rosario Suarez

The post EPISODE 027: Monumental’s Patrick Duffy Is a Wizard at Helping Companies Maximize Their Sports Marketing Investment first appeared on Sales Game Changers Podcast.