This is the fourth episode of the “AI and Selling Effectiveness Podcast.” Every other week, the IEPS posts a new show with IEPS Selling Essentials Marketplace partner Zeev Wexler from Viacry.
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Today’s show featured more ideas on how organizations should be using AI. It also featured the launch of the new Capgemini EVAL AI audit solution.
Fred’s guest again was expert in Digital Marketing, Blockchain & AI for Strategic Business & Revenue Growth Zeev Wexler, President of Viacry.
Find Zeev on LinkedIn.
ZEEV’S TIP: “AI should help you bring out more of your unique voice, not more of the AI. If your sales emails, LinkedIn posts, or proposals all start to sound the same, you’re losing the trust that real relationships are built on.”
THE PODCAST BEGINS HERE
Fred Diamond: Zeev, I first interviewed you in 2018, and now we’re over a half a dozen shows. AI for Selling Effectiveness, we’re going to be talking about something special at the end of today’s show, a program that we’re bringing to the market, the Institute for Effective Professional Selling, Viacry, and our good friends at Capgemini. We’ll talk about that in a second.
The reason we’re doing this show is a lot of sales professionals have begun to use probably ChatGPT, and they’re probably using it for two things. They’re probably using it as a Google replacement, but they’re also probably using it for content, crafting a good email, a LinkedIn post. A lot of them are out there figuring it out, but where we see a dearth of success is at the organizational level. We started talking about that on the past show. You gave three ideas on what organizations need to start doing to get their arms around how they can most effectively implement AI for sales processes. It’s great to see you again. Get us caught up and tell us why are companies struggling with this?
Zeev Wexler: Companies are struggling with this because this is new. As humans, none of us like to feel that we’re not smart. None of us like to feel like we don’t understand. Guess what? 99% of us do not understand AI, how to make it work, how to make it work within our organizations. We go into the things that everybody does, which is the ChatGPTs of the world. You and I, in our last episode, we said something, and I got some calls about it, and people really enjoyed the show. One thing that I said there is, in today’s selling world, mediocre is free. These off-the-shelf tools are by design mediocre. Just by design.
AI is not a magic stick, even though it’s incredible, amazing, and it allows us to do things we’ve never been able to do before. But you need to understand where AI falls into your organization, your process, your unique selling proposition. If you are not using AI in a way that is uniquely to you, you are not using AI right. Everybody now sounds the same. You see this on LinkedIn, sometimes on emails, everything sounds the same. I do not want to sound the same. I don’t want to be like everybody else. I want to be like me. I’m sure you share that.
What we said to organizations is they need to have, first, education, education that goes beyond the tools that are out there, the shiny object. Number two is they need a game plan for their own organization. Again, you can’t start with everything. You can’t bite all the stake in one bite. You got to take little chunks. The third thing, which I got a lot of calls about, was you need a governance board. You need a leadership of AI within your company, people that are passionate about it, that can help the organization move forward with AI.
Fred Diamond: You raise a great point there. Actually, one thing that we’re also seeing is, and you mentioned this I think two shows ago, when you use ChatGPT to create content, it puts things in like the em dash. That is a telltale sign that you didn’t create something and that it was generated by AI, which is fine until the customer says, “Well, this obviously didn’t come from you. This came from ChatGPT. Who am I dealing with? Is this a trusted partner that I can trust is going to be thinking about me as the customer and my challenges?” We’re seeing those types of things happen where the end user is becoming more aware and can identify where AI is coming in and where you’re not coming in. There’s a level of distrust that’s coming from that.
Zeev Wexler: We know, you and I, you as an amazing sales expert and me that’s been selling for many years, we know sales is about relationships. Right now, a lot of sales professionals are ruining relationships and trust by just using these off-the-shelf tools that make them sound not like themselves. You know me, Fred, if I send you an email right now, “Hello Fred, I hope this email finds you well,” blah, blah, blah. You’re like, “Who is this?” That’s not how Zeev emails me. You got to be careful because a lot of tools are great. A lot of them will shoot you in the foot. Relationship selling is how we move forward and you need to make sure that you sound like your unique self.
Fred Diamond: We’re well over 780 episodes. The Institute for Effective Professional Selling, we’re continuing to do sales programs with sales leaders around the globe from great companies. You need to build the trust, but you also need to understand where the customer’s going. We talk about this a lot. Customers don’t really need you if you’re not providing real value. We always tell this to the sales professionals, to really be successful right now, again, we’re doing today’s interview in early July, summer of 2025, is you need to be a couple of steps ahead of where the customer is. Otherwise, they really don’t need to talk to you.
Now, AI can help you get there. But the way you communicate that by showing that you are in relationship and that you understand where the specific customer is, the specific customer, the human being, and there may be 7, 10 15 at the customer site, where are they and how do they need to be communicated to.
Zeev Wexler: 100%. You mentioned that em dash. We’ve discovered 1,500 of these AI markers, we call them, things that AI does and most humans do. Now, I speak all over the world and sometimes I say that and people say, “But I use em dash.” You may have used it once in the last 10 emails. You don’t use it every paragraph. There is spacing things, emoji things, things that if you really are diving into AI, it’s clear which one you’re using. You’re not using ChatGPT, you’re using Claude, or Gemini, or you’re using Copilot. But all of these AI tools, if you just let them run, they show themselves. There are these 1,500 AI markers and you need to not show the AI. You need to show yourself. The AI should help you bring more of you, not more of the AI. That’s something that I see happens in the market so much, Fred.
Fred Diamond: That is a great distinction, that AI should help you bring out more of you as compared to more of the AI, and that’s one message we get across today. I want to go back to some of the organizational things, because the main reason why we’re doing this particular podcast, a sub-brand of the Sales Game Changers Podcast, the AI for Selling Effectiveness Podcast with Zeev Wexler from Viacry, is we’re not doing this show to give some tips on how you could use ChatGPT more effectively. Those are all over the place. The reason we created this podcast is to help organizations, to help the B2B, business to business, business to government, B2G, selling organizations that we serve become more effective, to help them engage their teams and their salespeople, to help them elevate their leaders, help them empower success.
Let’s talk a little more about some of the stuff we talked about last week. As we’re beginning, we’re not quite even at the precipice yet, but we’re beginning to talk to companies that have identified this challenge and they’ve identified that they need to get their arms around organizationally and standard-wise. Give us some of your insights. What are they telling you when you get to that right person? First of all, who is the right person? We talked about governance. Who are the people that are concerned with this, that we see, that you see at Viacry, and what are some of the things they’re telling you?
Zeev Wexler: At Viacry, we started with AI a few years ago, and at first we started by developing solutions. What we understood, it took us some time, maybe a little bit too long, but what we understood is a lot of companies don’t understand the problems or the abilities or the capabilities of AI, so trying to solve problems that they don’t understand yet is just not smart. When we really sit down with leaders and we understand, if it’s the CIO or if it’s a VP of a department, or if it’s even some of the leadership of the company, they want to first have guidelines.
Everybody in your company is using AI, whether you want it or not, whether you approve it or not, everybody’s using it. If you are not giving clear guidelines, mistakes will happen. Things that you don’t want will come out to the internet. We spoke about this in an episode. There are companies, I’m not going to name names, that pay us right now to feed ChatGPT false information because some of their key people fed it with their secrets. Now they want to dilute the water a little bit. One, you need guidelines. Two, you need to dive into your processes, your technology stack, your goals, and see where AI can safely make you money, save you time, and not bite you in the rear end.
Fred Diamond: Who are we talking about here? Is it sales enablement? Is it the VPs of sales? You mentioned corporate governance. Is it the audit organization? Who are you seeing take the lead at the implementation of the organizational standards?
Zeev Wexler: A lot of times it’s the CIOs, IT leaders, but you really need the head of the department to want to do this. The head of the department knows what their department is strong at, what they’re not. They know the past mistakes. I really want to get in with the heads of the department. Let’s say the VP of sales for an organization. You need to get him to really buy into what the AI can do for him. Again, you start with the low risk, high reward things. You cannot do everything at once. For that, you need a plan. Most companies, even the biggest ones, even the ones that offer AI services, sometimes don’t have a clear plan, clear guidelines of how AI goes. If there’s a salesperson or a sales leader that wants to understand, what can I do or not do with AI, a lot of times he does not have that guidance. That is what organizations need to make sure they have.
Heads of department, you need to dive into AI. You need to bring in the CIO, the IT guys. You need to understand what are the limitations, but you need to understand where, and there’s always a place, Fred. I’ve worked with hundreds of companies. There is always a place of low risk, high reward, where AI can either save you a hundred hours a week or can create you with 3X to your opportunities. There is always a place, but it’s different for each company. It’s not a cookie cutter one solution solves all. For that, you got to go in and do the research, and sometimes, rarely you can do it on your own. A lot of times you need to bring in a pair of eyes that really understands AI, that have done that in similar companies, to look at your processes, your tech stack, your personnel, and see where AI, low risk, high reward, and go. The companies that are doing it are separating themselves in the market and the companies that are not will have to do it eventually.
Fred Diamond: That’s absolutely true. It’s an interesting deflection point where companies haven’t quite reached, but some have. We’ve recognized a couple of those with the Institute for Effective Professional Selling AI for Sales Excellence Awards. We’ve had General Assembly on this podcast, and we’re going to be having Cvent in a couple weeks. This is actually a good opportunity for us to talk about some of the things that we’re doing, and I’m very excited to announce that the Institute for Effective Professional Selling in conjunction with Viacry, and we’re very excited to also be involved with Capgemini in this. We’re bringing to market the EVAL program, where we’re going to do some of the things that you just alluded to. We’re going to help companies get deep into where they are and where they need to go. Tell us a little more about the EVAL program.
Zeev Wexler: First, I salute you. What you’re doing here is you understand what is coming in the market, and we’re helping companies put that together. We are having this joint sales effort with this giant Capgemini that also understands what companies need to do. Together, we go into companies and we actually do a thorough evaluation of where you are right now, where AI can help you, where AI can hurt you. We also bring in the cutting edge of all the regulation, even though it’s not yet established here in the US. We know it’s established in Europe. We’re bringing all the regulations, we’re looking at your tech stack, your personnel, your processes, your goals, your clients, and we’re helping you create a roadmap for AI for the next 18 months. Now, I’m going to ask you a silly question, would you go into surgery without getting an X-ray?
Fred Diamond: No.
Zeev Wexler: I wouldn’t either. I think a lot of companies are performing surgeries without X-rays, and what we’re offering is a true X-ray. Let’s see where you are. Let’s see where the real risks are so we don’t touch those. Let’s see where the real opportunities lay so we can actually help you grow. At the end of the day, you and I both know, in the selling world, ROI is where it’s at. If you can create more, then that makes sense. If not, you’re just wasting efforts. Take a look, and we’re offering this to companies together with your incredible organizations and Capgemini, we want to help you have a roadmap. AI is just starting, but it’s not the future. It’s the present. It’s right now. You need to know, as soon as possible, where your high rewards lie, where your risks lie, and what you need to do. A lot of companies, most companies, don’t know this, and that’s where you and I and Capgemini are coming to help.
Fred Diamond: I’m thinking back when companies started launching websites, it was a similar type of a thing, but the challenge now is that it’s happening so fast. The individuals, the sales professionals, everybody has begun to play with, typically it’s ChatGPT, to be honest with you. Maybe they’re toying with some image creators or something, but for the most part, it’s the one tool. Maybe they’re using Gemini or something else, but usually it’s ChatGPT as a replacement for Google. You have all those things going on all over the place, and you have a company trying to get their arms around this. Because the reality is, every company that is listening to this, every company that’s involved with the Institute for Effective Professional Selling, every B2B entity, B2G entity out there, it’s hard, and it’s getting harder. The external factors are making it more difficult.
Your customer has access to these tools too, so they can find out, and you alluded to some of this before, that might not be true, they’re finding information about you that you don’t even know is out there. All these things are happening literally as we speak. Companies can’t afford to waste time not having standardization, and I don’t want to say standardization from a rigidity perspective. I’m saying standardization from a uniformity perspective. Here’s how we should be operating. Here’s where we need to go to be most effective to achieve our goals.
Zeev Wexler: I could not agree more. I want to give you an example, because I think examples are really strong. Everybody knows about ChatGPT and a lot of people think that AI is a chat bot. You throw something at it, it throws something back. I just helped an amazing huge manufacturing client that wanted to bring in manufacturing into their process. Now, they have a brilliant head of IT, a brilliant CIO, but these guys had so many plates spinning in the air they were afraid to take anything else because they thought something would fall. When we came and we did the eval for these guys, we found out that yeah, they can use automations to do all kinds of things, but they’re in manufacturing. We showed them the power of a CNN, a Convolutional Neural Network.
Now, their entire operation is being filmed by AI that finds the smallest little errors that they make, because an AI camera is a thousand times better than a human eye. Human eye is great, but we don’t catch these things. The CEO and the IT guy, even though he’s brilliant, they didn’t even hear about what a Convolutional Neural Network is, let alone what it can do for you.
Now, they were looking for a shiny object. They were like, “Which tool can I add to this?” It’s not about that. It’s about closing a knowledge base, securing it so you don’t give away all your secrets, and then training, educating a Convolutional Neural Network in all of that. Then that will save them literally so much money, cut the process, bring more revenue. I can tell you that CEO is so excited and he can’t wait to do more. Now we have a plan with them for the next 18 months of that’s the next step and the next step. You can’t do everything at once, but if you don’t have a plan, you’re going to fail. We don’t plan to fail. We just fail to plan. A lot of people don’t know what’s out there, Fred.
Fred Diamond: Once again, the Institute for Effective Professional Selling, our good friends at Capgemini, and all the brainpower at Viacry, we’re excited to announce the EVAL program to help your company take your sales processes through AI excellence to the next level, AI effectiveness. Zeev, we’re really learning a lot as we go through this show. It’s exciting to see the potential that we can bring companies that really are beginning to understand that they need to get their arms around this. They need to think strategically, they need to think smartly, and they need to get above this so that they can more effectively achieve their goals, like we talked about before, more effectively engage with their sales teams and their customers, elevate their leaders, and empower success.
We like to end every Sales Game Changers Podcast with an action step. You’ve given us so many great ideas, and one of the key things, of course, is if you’re listening to this, reach out to me, Fred Diamond, or Zeev Wexler on all the social media tools, LinkedIn is the easiest way, and we’ll talk to you about the EVAL program, how it can help you. But, Zeev, give us an action step people listening to today’s podcast can implement right now to take their sales career to the next level.
Zeev Wexler: Education. Leaders in organizations, you need to educate yourselves and the people in the companies about AI. AI is growing on a day-by-day basis. I am immersed in it and I still learn things every single day. It is growing so fast. Bring in education, bring in experts you trust into your companies to show, share, and bring in those ideas because the world is changing with AI now.
Fred Diamond: Once again, this is the AI for Selling Effectiveness Podcast, part of the Sales Game Changers Podcast brand. My name is Fred Diamond.
Transcribed by Mariana Badillo