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[EDITOR’S NOTE: This is a replay of the Optimal Sales Mindset virtual learning session sponsored by the Institute for Excellence in Sales on January 14, 2021. It featured an interview with David Meerman Scott. He is the co-author with his daughter Reiko of Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans.]
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David’s TIP: “I’m a huge believer in a concept that I originally learned from the Grateful Dead and that concept can absolutely be applied to sales and many salespeople do, however, a lot don’t. That’s the idea of giving gifts without any expectation of anything in return. The Grateful Dead allowed concertgoers record their concerts for free as long as they didn’t sell them. What does this mean for salespeople? The more helpful you are, the more valuable information you provide, the more that you help people not just by helping them to understand your company and its products but just by creating something valuable or linking to something valuable or sharing a news story that you see that your potential client might be interested in, the more you’re seen as being somebody who’s providing something or value, the more people will be drawn to you who will become your fans and will more likely want to buy something from you. Note that it’s not free if require an email address, That is precisely the wrong thing to do because that’s a coercion technique, that’s like saying to somebody, “No, you cannot have my white paper unless you give me something first, your email address.” That’s not a good way to sell in my mind, that’s not a good way to build fans in my mind, better to give it away.
THE PODCAST BEGINS HERE
Fred Diamond: Today it’s our Optimal Sales Mindset, we’re doing today’s show on January 14th, a lot of craziness going on. We’re going to get focused on how you can, as sales professionals, take your customers and create them into your fan. We’ve got David Meerman Scott, David is a best-selling author, he’s sold hundreds of thousands of books. The one that I got to know him with was The New Rules of Marketing and PR which of course transformed how companies look at their B to B marketing and probably B to C for that matter. David Meerman Scott, it’s great to see you here, you’ve written so many great things, people see behind you your books which have been translated into dozens of other languages, you’re known around the world and we’re excited to talk to you today.
David Meerman Scott: Thank you, Fred and I just have to say that I am so amazed that you do this every day. There are a lot of people who do their podcasts once a week or sometimes twice a week but daily is just remarkable. If I were wearing a hat, it would be hats off to you.
Fred Diamond: It’s been great because we have companies, like I mentioned before, who are members and they may not be able to watch the webinar but then they’ll watch it as a replay and then of course they’ll listen to it. So you wrote this book with your daughter, first off, how did that go? Tell us about that.
David Meerman Scott: So super cool. What I was thinking, Fred, about five or six years ago is I was thinking a few things. I was thinking about how the idea of social media as a way to market, as a way to sell, I had been an enthusiastic cheerleader for a long time. “It’s all about social media, jump into social media” but I started to see that the social media AI algorithms were starting to get way too heavy-handed. Especially Facebook, but all of the social media platforms where it used to be that any one of us, if we put out a post, it would get seen but the algorithm started to kick in in such a way that you put out a post and it goes into some black hole somewhere. That was really annoying and I also started to get very concerned with social media because it became – again, especially Facebook but the others as well – such a polarized place. What would happen is that if you started to go down a particular path, the social network’s algorithms would take you very deep down that path and that led to people believing conspiracy theories. That leads to people only listening to their own partisan communications loop and we’re actually seeing the ramifications of that in the beginning of 2021 especially where you live, Fred, in Washington DC. I thought, “What can we do differently as salespeople, as marketers to be more effective in a world where the social media companies have done this?” I was talking to my daughter Reiko in the car and at the time, she was 22 – she’s now 27 – and I said to her, “Reiko, what is it with the fact that I’m just such a passionate fan of things?” I love live music, I’ve been to 804 live music concerts, I’m a huge fan especially of the Grateful Dead, seen them 75 times and she said, “I know, daddy, I love Harry Potter so much.” I knew this but she’s read every book multiple times, seen every movie multiple times and has also written an 85,000 word alternative ending to the Harry Potter series in form of a novel where Draco Malfoy is a spy for The Order of the Phoenix and put it on her fan fiction site. We both agreed how passionate we are about our fandoms and my brain started to kick in and I said, “A-ha, that might be an interesting book.” I had written 10 books at that point so maybe this is a book. Reiko and I start talking about what might be in the book and then I said, “We should collaborate.” So we did and we wrote it together, she’s a mixed race – my wife is Japanese – Millennial woman who loves Harry Potter and at the time was in medical school. She’s since graduated, she’s now an emergency room resident at Boston Medical Center, she’s actually deep into treating COVID patients.
Fred Diamond: Good for her.
David Meerman Scott: I’m a Baby Boomer white Grateful Dead fan and so we were completely different people but we came together with the same idea of fandom. We spoke with literally hundreds of people about what they’re fans of and people are fans of sports teams and playing a sport, they’re fans of the company they do business with, they’re fans of a rock band like me, they’re fans of something like surfing or Peloton there’s massive fans of. Then we recognized that many companies have built fans and there’s thousands of companies that have built fan bases and we really dug in deep into how a company or for that matter a salesperson can build bands. It turns out that it’s rooted in neuroscience and it’s about a true human connection.
We did all of that research, we found examples of B to B companies and B to C companies, commodity brands, doctors, lawyers, dentists, all different sorts of organizations that have built fans and that ended up becoming Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans. It came out in 2020 last year, it hit the Wall Street Journal Best-Seller List. It’s a super cool experience writing a book with your daughter and it brought us together in some remarkable ways because we had to be equals. I couldn’t be the dad that supported her under my roof and paid her bills, we had to be equals, she had to be confident saying to me, “Daddy, this chapter you wrote, it’s terrible” [laughs] and she did say that, by the way. That worked out really well, we’re really excited about how it’s worked out and the resulting book that eventually came out.
Fred Diamond: Congratulations again.
David Meerman Scott: You’ve got a daughter so I know you can relate to the fact that being able to do a project like this with your daughter is an amazing experience. We only have one child so as much as we’re a threesome team – my daughter, my wife and I – having something that we could do together just the two of us was fabulous.
Fred Diamond: Congratulations on your daughter, what she’s been through over the last 10 months, it’s absolutely incredible what the first line people are seeing so congratulations to her. You mentioned Fanocracy from a sales retrospective. Again, our audience at the Sales Game Changers webinars and podcasts are typically sales leaders and sales professionals. I started my career at Apple Computer, a big part of what we tried to do was the Apple Champions, Apple Logo, as a matter of fact, I’m using a Windows machine but I have an Apple’s Logo pasted on the back. Let’s talk about sales professions, you mentioned that they could also create a Fanocracy. Talk about that for a second.
David Meerman Scott: Couple of different things that are super important for salespeople, and let’s talk a little bit about salespeople when we’re not in a pandemic. Then I want to segue a little bit to some ideas for what we can do now as we’re making this recording, it’s early 2021, what you can do during a pandemic. One thing we really wanted to dig in deeply is to the neuroscience aspects of fandom. What is actually going on in the human brain when you become a fan of something? Where you become a fan of a company or a product or a service or your salesperson. It turns out that all of us, every human is hardwired to want to be part of a tribe or like-minded people because when we’re part of a tribe of like-minded people we’re safe and comfortable. It actually goes back tens of thousands of years of humanity because back in the day, 20,000 years ago as pre-humans were roaming the plains or the woods, when we encountered somebody outside of our group or danger in the form of a wild animal or something, when we’re with our tribe that’s when we’re safe and comfortable. Even now if you’re with your friends – or in my case, at a Grateful Dead concert – then you feel safe, comfortable and secure whereas if you’re in a crowded elevator you can’t help but feel nervous. That’s actually going back to neuroscience so what does this mean for building fans in normal circumstances, pre-pandemic and hopefully by mid-year when we’re doing sales calls again and client meetings and client conferences again? One neuroscientist whose name was Edward T. Hall identified different levels of proximity, how far we are from one person to another and it turns out that he identified several levels of how close people are to one another. He identified further than 12 feet he called public space. It turns out our brains don’t track people in our public space even though we know they’re there. Between 12 feet and about 4 feet he deemed social space – hence the term ‘social distancing’ – and our brains begin to track the people who enter our social space. We can’t help it so you walk into a crowded room and you see other people, you track who those people are. Do I know them? Where are they? Is there danger in here? And 4 feet approximately is the beginning of personal space where the most powerful human connections happen. What’s interesting about this is if you can bring people into your personal space and they trust you and they like you, that’s building incredibly powerful human relationship. That’s cocktail party distance, that’s the distance that you’re meeting somebody at a tradeshow, that’s the distance that you’re meeting somebody if your company holds a conference for your clients or if you hold a cocktail get-together for your clients or you meet a potential customer face-to-face.
Then what about a pandemic? There’s another form of neuroscience called mirror neurons which is the part of the brain that fires when you see somebody doing something as if you’re doing it yourself which I’ll demonstrate. You didn’t know I had props and those of you who are listening now who aren’t seeing me, I’m holding a lemon and a slice of lemon. If I take a bite of the slice of lemon, it’s super powerful to bite a lemon. My eyes close, my eyes are watering a little bit, my mouth puckers up, I can feel the lemon on my tongue and my lips and my brain is firing like mad but Fred, your brain is firing too, isn’t it? Are you feeling that lemon?
Fred Diamond: I can sense what you’re going through, absolutely.
David Meerman Scott: Even those of you who didn’t see me and just heard me talking about biting into a lemon can feel that lemon. Here’s where this becomes interesting from the neuroscience perspective about building fans as a salesperson. The more you can use video and especially video cropped as if you’re 4 feet away – as Fred and I are recording this, those of you who are watching know that we appear to be about 4 feet away from you. We’ve both purposely placed our cameras such that we look to our audience as being about 4 feet away. Here’s what’s going on, your mirror neurons are firing as if we’re actually in the same room, you intellectually know that we’re somewhere different, you’re not in the same room but your mirror neurons just like that lemon are telling you you’re in the same room. Fred, I think you’re outside of Washington DC, I’m outside of Boston so we’re 400 miles away from one another but our brains are processing as if we’re in the same room because we’re seeing each other on video propped about 4 feet away.
You look directly at the camera, the camera is positioned about eye level, you do it in a natural way, you always look directly into that lens. As salespeople, we can build fans through these concepts of neuroscience if we use video in the way that we sell. Have video on your website, use video for your outreach to people, use video to leave a message rather than necessarily sending an email or an audio message. Do what Fred does and create a video show of some kind. These are all different ways of using video and it’s a super powerful way to grow fans even in a pandemic.
Fred Diamond: David, that’s a great idea and I want to get a little bit deeper into the actual sales professional and what they’re hoping to achieve. You and I worked at Apple and Apple invented a lot of this conceptual type stuff and you talked about some of the great companies in Fanocracy, but let’s talk about what the reps are hoping to achieve. Every sales rep who’s listening right now is trying to achieve a number for the most part. “My number for this year is a million.” Last year in 2020 it was a challenge because there weren’t as many transactions, so they had to figure out other ways to be professional. Let’s talk about how this fits in with what the sales reps are trying to achieve. Also, we talked about bands, I know you’re a big Grateful Dead fan. Talk a little bit about using Fanocracy to achieve the end goal.
David Meerman Scott: Let’s talk about a couple of those concepts, and these are nothing new for your regular listeners but certainly have very big aspects of growing fans. I’m a huge believer in a concept that I originally learned from the Grateful Dead and that concept can absolutely be applied to sales and many salespeople do, however, a lot don’t. That’s the idea of giving gifts without any expectation of anything in return. Here’s what I mean by that, I look back in my own life and when I was 17 years old and I started to hear from the next-door neighbor Grateful Dead music, he was playing it out of his bedroom window and I was like, “Wow, that’s really cool, I like that, what is that?” “That’s the Grateful Dead.” It turns out the Grateful Dead were the only band and one of the few that are still allowing fans to record their concerts. Every other band – whether it was the Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd or Tom Petty, whoever it was – “No, you can’t record our shows, no recording devices allowed.” Back in the day before the smartphone, no cameras, no audio recording, no video recording. The Grateful Dead said, “Sure, why not? Go ahead, bring it in.” They even created a taper’s section that had places that you could plug in, you could get power to power your high-end professional level tape recorders. Their only rule is that you can’t sell their recordings and in the early days it was cassette tapes. As long as you’re giving them away or trading them – and later on, MP3 files – you’re cool. What the Grateful Dead did was they created the gift to Grateful Dead fans or a gift to the universe is the way I like to think of it, of something without any expectation of anything in return. What’s cool about this is this is how I learned about the Grateful Dead, this is how millions of people learned about the Grateful Dead and when we hear these concert tapes, we want to go to a concert ourselves to experience it. It turns out they became the most popular touring band in history in the 1990s, they sold a billion dollars’ worth of concert tickets and that was because they allowed fans to record their concerts and that spread their music.
What does this mean for salespeople? Again, Fred, I know you’ve talked about this concept before probably on this podcast many times but the more helpful you are, the more valuable information you provide, the more that you help people not just by helping them to understand your company and its products but just by creating something valuable or linking to something valuable or sharing a news story that you see that your potential client might be interested in, the more you’re seen as being somebody who’s providing something or value, the more people will be drawn to you who will become your fans and will more likely want to buy something from you. I see very often especially in B to B sales that people don’t do that. If you look at it from the big picture, in B to B sales from the perspective of lead generation, almost all B to B companies create what their mind they think are wonderful white papers and so on, content that they give away, but they don’t put it out for free. They say it’s free, it’s not free because as soon as you require an email address, it’s not free but they say it’s free. That is precisely the wrong thing to do because that’s a coercion technique, that’s like saying to somebody, “No, you cannot have my white paper unless you give me something first, your email address.” That’s not a good way to sell in my mind, that’s not a good way to build fans in my mind, better to give it away.
For all of you sales leaders, talk to your marketing people, see if you can un-gate your white papers and your other content. For salespeople, the individual sales reps, how can you just provide interesting value and be helpful and not just send stuff about your own company’s products and services but send things that are of value in general and become somebody that they want to do business with? Again, not earth-shattering ideas, Fred, you’ve heard them before, you’ve said them before, other guests have talked about them but they’re super interesting and a lot of people don’t pay too much attention to this idea.
Fred Diamond: We have a question here from Rosie, Rosie is in DC. “Do the gifts have to have tangible value?” We talk a lot on the Sales Game Changers podcast about gratitude and we actually had our mutual friend, the great Alice Heiman on a couple of times to talk about ways to be gracious and to show gratitude. As a sales professional, should it be something tangible like a bottle of wine or a gift or clothing or something or is it good enough to be an insight? One thing that we talk a lot about on the Sales Game Changers podcast, I know there’s pre and post-pandemic but right now customers aren’t going to talk to you unless you’re bringing tremendous value for them and sales professionals should know where the customer is. Talk about that for a real brief second, then I have an interesting follow-up question. I want to talk to you about passion but before we get to that, tangible gifts versus information.
David Meerman Scott: Good question, Rosie. It certainly can be tangible but I think tangible in my mind is something that has a perceived value because you know how much a bottle of wine is, in that case. Fred, what you’re doing by creating a daily webinar, you’re creating tremendous value making this content for free with no expectation of anything in return. It’s not a coercion technique, you’re not forcing people into hoops in order to get this content, they can just subscribe to it. This is exactly what I’m talking about, so the question becomes does this podcast have tangible value? I would argue yes, it’s totally valuable. If you take some of the nuggets that come out of this on a regular basis, you will be a better salesperson or you will be a better sales professional but it’s not the same as sending somebody a set of golf clubs or something like that. That to me feels a little more like coercion than just providing some content of value. What I think of an individual salesperson, can they understand the person that they’re trying to reach? That individual person and then just provide a link to an article that they might find interesting, a link to something that they discussed on their last call, something that says, “I’m thinking about you and when I saw this article I thought about you and I thought you might want to see it.” Even if that has absolutely nothing to do with the product or service they’re trying to sell, I would say especially if that doesn’t have anything to do with the product or service that you sell because you’re building that relationship, you’re building that fan.
Fred Diamond: Rosie just chimed in, “That’s great because I can’t afford golf clubs.”
David Meerman Scott: [Laughs]
Fred Diamond: David, I want to talk about passion. It’s interesting, you’re a big Grateful Dead fan, I love lots of other bands, The Pretenders, Tom Petty, I guess my equivalent of Grateful Dead is probably Bruce Springsteen although I’ve only seen him a dozen times. Let’s talk about passion and it’s interesting, prior to the pandemic when I was doing the Sales Game Changers podcast many of the sales VPs who I would interview talked about how you need to be passionate of one of two things: you need to be passionate about your customer, the market and their challenges and/or you need to be passionate about your solution, the technology, the product, whatever it is. You know when someone’s faking it and you said you’ve been to 804 shows, I guess it was probably 804 as of March 14th [laughs].
David Meerman Scott: The last show that I saw was March 1st 2020 and gosh, do I miss it. I saw my first concert when I was 15, it was Aerosmith at Madison Square Garden, the second concert I saw was The Ramones, they played in my high school in Connecticut and from there all the way up to the last show that I saw was Melissa Etheridge in a very small party with 200 people and I miss it.
Fred Diamond: Two quick things, we saw Melissa Etheridge open for Pat Benatar two summers ago and she was absolutely phenomenal. Other data point, Bruce Springsteen actually wrote Hungry Hearts for The Ramones.
David Meerman Scott: I did not know that, that’s awesome.
Fred Diamond: The third thing is I just read a book on the history of the song Walk This Way and how Rick Rubin brought Aerosmith and Run DMC together.
David Meerman Scott: We could do a whole podcast on music, but Aerosmith was getting a little long in the tooth and then they got totally jumpstarted with that song, it was amazing.
Fred Diamond: Absolutely, they were a dinosaur in the mid-80s and they’re one of the biggest bands still in America. But anyway, let’s talk about passion [laughs].
David Meerman Scott: Let’s talk about passion. You asked me about passion in general but then you went specific in your question, passionate about a product or service, passionate about a company. I believe that it’s much bigger because the most surprising thing that my daughter Reiko and I learned when we were doing the research for the book Fanocracy and how and why people become fans of a product or a service is the passion of the people who work in the company that sells them that product or service. That passion actually isn’t the passion for the product or service that they sell, it’s that salesperson’s passion for life. It’s what they love to do, are they an interesting human being? Are they somebody that I want to hang with? What we found was that people in general but salespeople in particular who share what they’re passionate about, that passion is infectious. That’s one of my favorite quotes from the book and my daughter thought of it, I’ll give her the credit, passion is infectious.
I want to share an example not from a salesperson but one that’s very illustrative of this idea. I met a dentist named Doctor John Marashi, I speak at Tony Robbins Business Mastery events around the world, some of you may have been to that event, it’s a fabulous event. I met Doctor John Marashi and he said, “David, I can’t have fans, I’m a dentist.” I said, “Doctor Marashi, sure you can. Tell me about your practice.” He said, “I’ve got a practice in southern California, there’s tens of thousands of dentists in southern California, I don’t know how to break out.” I said, “What do you love to do?” and he says, “I love to skateboard.” I said, “That’s it, you should talk about skateboarding in context of your dental practice.” He actually put skateboards on the wall of his practice, he skateboards from one examination room to another, he has skateboards on his practice’s website, he did an Instagram where about half of the posts are either video or photographs of him skateboarding. He contacted me a year later and said, “David, that one idea you said, to share images and videos of me skateboarding has grown my business by 30% in terms of new patients and 23% in terms of new revenue because now I’m not one of 10,000 dentists, I’m the skateboarding dentist and it’s not other skateboarders, it’s just people who love my passion.”
One more example, I mentioned my daughter Reiko, my co-author in our book Fanocracy. Reiko is, as I mentioned, an emergency room doctor at Boston Medical Center, she’s been working with COVID patients. When Reiko goes in to see a patient she’s got PPE from head to toe, she’s got a big old mask on, she’s got an eye protector, a face shield, she’s got something covering her hair, she’s got gloves on her hands, she’s got the gown on, her scrubs on, she’s covered head to toe. All you can see is her eyes but it’s in front of a shield and the patients are frightened, they’re in the hospital for COVID so what she does is she always makes a point of sharing on her body something that she’s passionate about. That could be a Boston Red Sox mask, that could be a rainbow pin, that could be any number of different things to show her personality. When she walks into a Boston hospital wearing a Boston Red Sox mask her patients light up, “My gosh, this is a human who’s going to deal with me right now.” Even though they’re scared, they’re a little bit less scared.
What does this mean from a salesperson’s perspective? It means don’t just focus on trying to wrestle your prospect to the ground, don’t just focus on what you and your company and your products and services do, open yourself up, share part of your personality, share what you love. Here’s a specific outer manifestation of that. When I take a look – and this is something I know that you do a lot of as well, Fred, we’ve talked about it before – on LinkedIn, if you look at an individual salesperson’s LinkedIn profile, the vast majority of the time it’s absolutely 100% business. There is nothing that you can identify of personal nature on the average salesperson’s LinkedIn, I think that’s a tremendous mistake. I want to know what you’re passionate about, I want to know that you love a sports team, I want to know that you love to go fishing, I want to know that you’ve been to 75 Grateful Dead concerts. I want to know these things because all of a sudden you’re not a nameless, faceless salesperson trying to take money out of my pocket, now you’re a human being that has passions and that passion is infectious.
Fred Diamond: David, that’s a great point and actually that’s a concept and a topic that we talk about all the time on the Sales Game Changers podcast because for the first time in our history, everybody on the planet is dealing with the same thing. It’s getting past whatever COVID means, getting past the financial challenges related to COVID and then whatever the third thing might be. David, last question before I ask you for your final action step. As a sales leader, what could you be doing to instill a lot of this into your sales reps? What would be your advice? We have hundreds of sales leaders who listen to the podcast, members of the Institute, the guests on the show, what can they do to instill these ideas into their sales team?
David Meerman Scott: I’d like to see sales leaders showcase their passion as well, to showcase what they love to do on their personal time. I think that very specifically recognizing that each one of your salespeople has a life outside of the office. Can you let them celebrate what it is that they love? If you have somebody who’s training for a marathon on your sales team, give them the freedom to train whenever they want. If it’s best to train at 2 in the afternoon, let them train at 2 in the afternoon. It’s okay to have their LinkedIn profile or their Twitter profile share what it is that they happen to be passionate about. The whole idea of building fans is building a true human relationship, one person to another person. The more humanity that you as a sales leader can allow your salespeople to show truly, the more sales you’ll make. I know it’s a bit of a leap but it’s true and we’ve done the research, we’ve spoken with hundreds and hundreds of people of why they become fans with a company. We’ve spoken with hundreds and hundreds of companies for how they’ve built fans and I’ll leave you with one example. One of my favorite examples from the book, I’ve been on the HubSpot advisory board since 2007. I joined the company as an adviser when they had zero clients, 8 employees, data software only and no revenue and we implemented these ideas for the past 13 years. Brian Halligan, the CEO of HubSpot is a good friend of mine. We didn’t know each other before I joined the board but we’re good friends now. He’s an even more passionate Grateful Dead fan than me, he’s seen the band a hundred times, we co-wrote a book together with Bill Walton, the basketball player called Marketing Lessons from the Grateful Dead that came out about a decade ago. Here’s the thing with HubSpot, they do all the things I’ve been talking about, especially this idea of building passion among their salespeople. The things I’ve talked about, allowing salespeople to do their thing in their private life, not trying to control the hours that they work as long as they get the job done allowing them to share their passions on their social networks. HubSpot has grown from zero to – they’re going to announce their earnings in about a month as we’re recording this – they’re on track to do $650 million dollars of revenue this year. Their market cap last time I checked was about $18 billion dollars, last year they were named the #1 company to work for in America by employees including their salespeople on Glass Door.
As sales leaders, as company leaders, when we do the things I just talked about, your employees and your salespeople love to work at your company. They will do a great job for you, they will sell really well for you and perhaps you will grow from zero to $650 million dollars in revenue over 13 years like HubSpot did.
Fred Diamond: That would be a great goal. David Meerman Scott, before I ask you for your final action idea, you’ve given us so many great ideas here. I want to let you know that you may not realize this, I know you sold hundreds of thousands of books and they’ve been converted into dozens of languages and you’ve done hundreds of webinars. Prior to the pandemic you were flying all over the world speaking to companies and associations and organizations, I want to acknowledge you for how you’ve helped a lot of marketing professionals transform how they go about marketing. My first exposure to you was The New Rules of Marketing and PR.
David Meerman Scott: I love the fact that you have a first edition, Fred, that’s awesome. It’s now in the 7th edition so when I see that first edition, it makes my heart warm [laughs].
Fred Diamond: I jumped on the book, but you’d be amazed at how many sales leaders I’ve worked with over the years who have asked me if I was aware of your work and we have a lot of great people in common. David, give us one final action step, something people listening to the webinar today or the podcast should do now to take their sales career to the next level.
David Meerman Scott: Take a look at your LinkedIn profile right now, the text you use, and turn it into a first person profile. Use “I” rather than a third person, share who you are, let us know who you are, build conflict into your LinkedIn profile. My LinkedIn profile says, “I was sacked, I was fired, my bosses didn’t think that I was doing a great job.” That’s who I opened my LinkedIn profile and people’s mind are blown, “What is this guy doing?” Show passion, show us who you are.
Fred Diamond: As I tell my daughter every morning, take your passion and make it happen. David Meerman Scott, thank you so much. For everybody watching today or listening to the podcast, thank you so much.
Transcribed by Mariana Badillo