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EDITOR’S NOTE: We conducted this interview in February 2020, hence the poor social distancing below. Since the show was released during the COVID-19 pandemic, we asked Diane what her advice is for sales professionals during the pandemic. She offered the following:
- Take really great care of yourself. Nutrition, Sleep, Movement, etc.
- Keep sourcing yourself with positive and visionary messages from inspiring, motivating and wise leaders (like IES provides.).
- What your mind focuses on is what you create. Spend time envisioning the future with your clients. What do you see is possible over the horizon? What can you do now to make the future a reality?
EPISODE 225: Squeeze More Life Out of Time Author Diane Cashin Says These Mindset Strategies Will Help Sales Leaders Succeed During the COVID-19 Pandemic
DIANE’S FINAL TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “When I think about selling I even change the word, I say I’m just going to go care about somebody today, I’m going to care about what they need and hopefully there’s a good fit for me and my company.”
Diane Cashin is the author of Squeeze More Life Out of Time, where she talks about strategies for managing your mind, energy and your minutes to live an extraordinary life.
A speaker, author and coach, she works with leaders and individuals as an ontological coach to tap into “who they are” to amplify “what they do” to make what seems impossible, possible.
Diane’s had a great career in sales. She was at Cisco for a long time and managed strategic alliances and partnerships with companies such as Lockheed, BAE and L3 Communications.
She’s also an expert on the health care industry.
Find Diane on LinkedIn here.
Fred Diamond: Diane, we’re going to be talking today about specifically how you can put some practices in place to be more of an effective sales professional. We asked you to be on the show for two reasons: the book just came out and it’s a tremendous book with a lot of great tips, and you also come from the sales world so you know the life that our listeners have been experiencing. I know you’ve listened to a number of the shows and I’m really excited for getting some ideas from you on how the people listening around the globe can put some practices and habits in place so they can be more productive. First off, how are you doing today?
Diane Cashin: I am extraordinary. How are you today, Fred?
Fred Diamond: I’m doing fantastic. Again, I’m excited about talking to you, the book is fantastic, we’ll provide plenty of links for people to get access to the book. Again, it’s called Squeeze More Life Out of Time. How did you come up with the title ‘Squeeze More Life Out of Time’?
Diane Cashin: It just seemed like a lot of things in life, we want to do so many things and we just run out of time, so where’s all the time going? It is one of the finite things we have to accept in life but where does your time go? If you really want to play a big game in life and be a sales superstar, you really have to be mindful of where you have time leakage, time, energy and emotional leakage that distracts you from what you really want to create.
Fred Diamond: Again, we have Sales Game Changers listening around the globe. I mentioned in the introduction that you worked at Cisco for a long time. Cisco, of course, is one of the top companies in the history of technology and again, you had a very successful sales career there. Why don’t you tell us before we get really deep into some of the topics today, what was it like to work in sales at Cisco?
Diane Cashin: When you’re working for a company like that, you’re a disruptor in many ways. You’re on the front end of things while you’re taking care of problems right now so all the time we really needed to understand where the business of our partners or customers was going as well as where it was now. How were we going to help them move from their as-is state to their future desired state? They were continually transforming, it was always a bit disruptive, it always was taking them out of their comfort zones but when you take great minds and you put them together and you say, “Okay, what can we do together?” Your chocolate, our peanut butter is the way I would look at it in a strategic alliance space is we’re better together so how can we help change the end customer environment? How can we solve really complex problems together? That was so much fun. It’s always great to have a strong brand and the RND teams that are behind that. You have the confidence to go talk about things and talk about the unknown and bring that back and say, “Here’s a really complex problem, what approach might we take?” Often times we felt like we were making the impossible possible so whether it was on the front end strategic lead doing business development shaping things for years, the RND process. Or right now there’s something going on, the client needs a solution or they’re expanding or their technology innovation was changing so much faster now. Every 18 months things were changing so now the CIOs and the CTOs were looking to us to say, “How do I keep up with this speed?” Having a great sales force and all the geniuses at Cisco standing up and saying, “We can help” and, “Let’s do it together” was really an amazing journey.
Fred Diamond: We’re going to be talking about a lot of the themes you have in the book as they apply to sales professionals. I’m excited to be talking to you about this because again, you come from the sales world, you understand what sales professionals go through, you’ve worked with tons of partners, you spent a little bit of time in your career in the non for profit space, you also focused on the healthcare vertical so you have a nice, wide ranging view of what sales professionals go through.
As you know, on the Sales Game Changers podcast we ask the sales leaders for their tips and their advice and what type of challenges do the Sales Game Changers that work for them need to overcome. We’re going to address a couple of them today, we’re going to talk specifically about time management which comes up all the time. When I ask the sales leaders, “What’s your advice for the sales professionals listening?” They always talk about managing their time.
The second thing that they always talk about is preparation, that you need to prepare for the interaction with the customer.
The third thing that comes up is relationships, how do you build these strong relationships to help your customers get more value? The fourth thing we’re going to talk about today is persistence, so I strongly recommend if you’re listening to the podcast today, again you’re probably driving your car or you’re probably out mowing the lawn or working out on the treadmill, but maybe take out your notebook, maybe take out a notepad, listen to the show again, read the transcript – of course, we transcribe every show – because Diane is going to give us some salient ways on how you can truly optimize your sales career. We’re going to get deeper on today’s show than we typically do on the podcast so are you okay with that, Diane?
Are you ready to go?
Diane Cashin: Love it, let’s do it.
Fred Diamond: Let’s get started with time management. When I ask the sales leaders who are on the podcast, “How have you reached the level that you have?” I’m always surprised at how many of them say they optimized their time. They’ve learned how to optimize not just their days but their minutes, so let’s talk about that. First of all, why is time management a problem? Why does that come up all the time on the podcast? And then let’s get deep, your book is called Squeeze More Life Out of Time, so tell us about that.
Diane Cashin: Having lived that journey in sales, boots on the ground trying to figure it all, you feel like you’re always behind, you can never seem to catch up. A lot of it I look at as where is my time going? When you stop to truly notice it, you’re going to find you have a lot of places where you’re leaking time so it’s already overwhelming, yet you have things that you’re potentially creating yourself that are distractions and not necessarily serving you anymore. A couple of things are for example, when you think about the course of your day, where are you leaking time? Where can you plug them in? I put them in the category of energy and emotion leaks because when you’re not focused on what you need to do, if maybe there’s something, let’s say, gossipy or you’re watching the news or you’re on Facebook or there’s something going on, what you’re focusing on is taking your time and that is what you’re going to be in action to create.
It may then be emotionally impactful but you can’t be effective in your sales game if you’re over here and you’re only giving 50% of your attention to what you’re doing because there’s this other thing whispering in your ear about an event that happened or something that you saw on social media or a phone call you just got. Again, thanks for saying, “Take out a paper or take a look for yourself”, where do you notice you lose time? Sometimes it’s more subtle, it’s extended conversations that probably could have been held in maybe 5 minutes instead of 15, they could be meetings that you’re taking an hour or you’re invited to, yet they could have been 30 minutes or maybe you didn’t need to attend at all.
Part of this is how do you change your relationship to your time and that your time has value? What I did – and I do this all the time – is I look at what is my hourly rate, and you can change this based on how many hours you really want to work. But if you think about it, we don’t want to work more hours, we want to work the right amount of hours but be as impactful as possible. Let’s say I have a sales quota of a million dollars, my hourly rate based on a 40 hour work week with 2 weeks’ vacation, let’s say it’s 2,000 hours. That’s $500 dollars an hour, so if you’re spending 15 minutes of that looking at social media or chit-chatting over the water cooler stuff or, “Oh no he didn’t, oh no she didn’t” kind of stuff, that is time lost and you don’t get that time back.
You can continue then to also look at it, what’s the correlation to my quota? What does it mean to my salary? Maybe if you bring a million dollars in you make 100K, that means every hour to you in your pocket is $50 dollars. Now, if you really take those numbers, you post them on a wall, put them in your car dashboard, stick them on your phone, that’s your real value to quota and to income. What would you do differently with that awareness? How are you going to guard your time now?
Fred Diamond: If you think about some of that, you mentioned a million dollars. Obviously working at companies like Cisco and large companies like that, you can make that especially for some of your accounts, if you will. What are some of the high performing professionals that you’ve worked with and that you’ve coached – again, I didn’t mention this in the beginning as well but you’re also an executive coach. You work with CEOs and business leaders and sales leaders around the globe helping them get more value from their lives. What are some of the things that they do? Do they not gossip, do they not go on social media? Is it 100% focus? What are some of the best traits?
Diane Cashin: From a time perspective specifically, some people will talk about, “I get up at 5 A.M. every day.” I tend to say, “Just get up two hours or so before your first commitment” because you need that time to source yourself. What are your intentions for the day? What are your areas of focus? What are the three things only they can do that day that they’re going to get done and be completely unstoppable? They spend time thinking about that, they might meditate but they really set their intention and purpose for the day. Calendars help with that or calendars can hinder but once they do that, they also take some time to source their body.
They eat well or they go for a run, they’re putting energy into their body so that they can perform at a high level and then lastly, they usually in that hour or so – I call it an hour power – they move. We talk about moving, but they read something or they’re inspired by somebody else whether it’s cliff-note level of books or watching a masterclass, they source themselves with at least 20 minutes’ worth of someone else that’s doing awesome things in the world. They set their intentions and get focused all their energy for the day, they take care of their body and they take care of their mind.
Fred Diamond: I want to go back and I want you to define intention. You’ve mentioned that a couple of times, get real specific. What does intention mean? Especially for high performance people.
Diane Cashin: It can change from day to day. Let’s say you have a proposal due today or let’s go with a presentation with somebody really important, you’re going to try to move the deal further into the funnel or even close it. Now you’ve got to get up in front of a room. You might wake up that morning and set your intention with lots of breaths and say, “Today my intention is courage” or, “Today my intention is possibility.” “Today my intention is closing” but when you give yourself something as your guiding, your true north, the beacon for the day, you’re going to say, “If my intention is courage, what are three things I can do to support me being courageous today?”
One of them might just be talk to a friend beforehand or get coached or mentored. Maybe it’s letting go of the need to hyper-perform. Maybe it’s to relax and interact and be more comfortable engaging with people and not have the practice letting go of the fear of presenting. For you, what would that look like? These are some of the things that I’ve seen and heard, but what gets in the way of your success? Specifically, what action am I going to take and who am I going to be today to go make it happen? Then you’re completely unstoppable around that.
Fred Diamond: One of the things I’ve noticed in the over 200 plus interviews that we’ve done on the Sales Game Changers podcast is that we’re providing ways for sales professionals to remove blocks to their success. You talked about this a couple times, things that are in the way, disruptions, distractions. Talk about focus, how can someone truly get focused? You mentioned in the morning, “What is your intention for the day?” it’s courage or whatever it might be. Talk about ways that high performers truly focus and don’t get the hour spent on Facebook which is not going to make you a million bucks. If your goal is to do a million and your hourly rate is $500 an hour and you’re spending an hour on Facebook, you just lost $500.
Diane Cashin: That’s right. It’s an important thing to get focused even with your funnel. If you think you need four times your funnel to close, the capacity of focus, you’re casting net wide, you’re listening, learning, you’re asking questions, you’re partnering, you’re looking to talk to more clients about problems.
When you think about focus, it’s important salespeople qualify and de-qualify so sometimes what I find, especially for the clients that I coach, is while they think they’re asking great questions, they’re asking many great questions but they’re somehow avoiding some of the most important ones that really let them know if this is truly going to come to fruition or not. I think what great leaders do in a very flat, detached, non-emotional way is they’ll ask a very important question and they’re not afraid that the person may say something they don’t like or tell them no. They have come through the years of their being sales experts and executives, I’m sure when they started they had fear.
I think other people let fear get in the way that, “If I ask this question, I may seem too forward or I may make them feel uncomfortable or they may not be happy with me. I may lose the deal on the spot simply because I asked about their budget.” Some people don’t necessarily want to ask some of the most important questions.
Fred Diamond: Which goes back to the next topic, then. We’re talking about asking the right questions. One of the things that comes up all the time on the Sales Game Changers podcast is preparation. I ask the question, “Tell us about your expertise, tell us about your specific area of brilliance” and a lot of times they’ll say preparation. “I really know how to prepare” or they’ll say they’re a great listener and I’ll say, “Well, how do you become a better listener?” and they say, “By preparing.” So let’s talk about preparation as the next topic. Why would some sales professionals not prepare? And let’s talk about some things they could be doing to prepare even better.
Diane Cashin: Let’s break it into two pieces because one of the symptoms of not preparing is you don’t have enough time. Part of what I invite people to do is really start blocking off time on their calendar. It doesn’t have to be specific like, “I’m going to answer my email from 3:00 to 4:00 but if you block off time for these systems now that say, “My calendar is up to date”, and people just take your time, a lot of professionals are just booked back to back and it doesn’t let you do the innovative, creative, preparatory work you need to do. It also doesn’t let you just have time to think and prepare what questions you might even ask. Some of the stuff is obvious, but be a little selfish with your time but block it off so people don’t steal it in today’s calendars that are shared.
That’s one thing. The other thing around preparation is it’s never been easier to prepare. Use Google and then it gives you all the links of where you’re going to look and that’s great, so please do all of that. Read about the company, read as much as you can about what they’re doing. I would also submit that when you’re preparing for something it’s the human connection. We talk about relationships but even though somebody has business goals or outcomes that your product/service/solution/approach might help them, it may help them sleep better at night because they solve it. They may get a bonus because they solved it. They’re out here looking for maybe what you have, so when you’re preparing for that, obviously know how this will make a difference for their life, not just to how the solution will fit the company but how will it make their day different? What about their team, what about their clients, what about their shareholders?
When I think about preparation, we tend to focus on the now like their as-is state, the challenge, the problem. The best salespeople I find ask the questions that take them into the future. For example, “Fred, when we’re on the other side of this, when you have the solution or our services, tell me what is it like for your business now. What’s it like for your clients? How about your team? How about profitability? What will be different for you once we’ve done when we’re on the other side of this?” What that does is it takes them to a forward place and if you capture that in your notes, “This is what life is going to be like for Fred, his team, his profitability”, when you get further into the relationship where things maybe get bumpy, when we talk about the persistent stuff, you can remind them of that because often times we’re living in the moment.
We’re solving to the moment and then the days get hold of us but when you’re talking at the relationship level, at the solutioning level, you can reference back their words of what they said about how this is going to be the game changer.
Fred Diamond: Interesting point there, and we’ll talk about this probably more in the relationship conversation we’re going to have in a minute or two but you talked about preparing not from your perspective but from their perspective. How is this going to help you? A lot of people, when they listen to the show they think it’s preparation about how you prepare yourself, how you do the research but it’s not about preparing for what I’m going to say, it’s preparing for how you’re going to make an impact with the customer.
Diane Cashin: The more you know about them, of course. Running these global alliances I knew more about these companies than they may have known about themselves because that was my job, to really know them well so I could be in service and I could make a difference for them and mutual growth. At the same time I also had to think about, “How do I really understand what they need so as to make a difference for our company, too?”
There was a little bit of what we needed, of course but when you make it about somebody else, you make it about them, you make it about your boss even internally, when you make it about your boss, your team, your company, when you make it about the person you’re working with to solve the problem, their team, their company, in the end none of this is really about you. If you take the time to care about all of those people whose lives you impact in your role, they’re going to be so grateful. Tremendous partnerships will be built, relationships will be really strong and the way you do that is you need to be a curiosity bug like when you were five. You have to ask really curious, caring questions, like you care about them.
Fred Diamond: Diane, we talked about time management, we talked about preparation, let’s talk now about relationships. Again, a lot of times when I do the Sales Game Changers podcast I’m interviewing sales leaders who’ve had 20, 30, sometimes even 40 years’ careers of success and a lot of times they’ll go back to that they’ve built these great relationships that have maintained themselves, people that they’re still working with 30 somewhat years ago, especially for people who are serving the same market like government or healthcare or public sector. Let’s talk about relationships, why do people struggle with relationships and what are some things that the Sales Game Changers listening to today’s show can do to get more value, more life out of their relationships?
Diane Cashin: It’s a great segue from our last piece. In the end, whether it’s business or in life it’s really not about you. When you make a difference for other people’s lives, when you care about them, focus on them, are interested in them, the relationships and the connections really click in a much different level. When you think about who we are, when life is good for us, we’re having a great day or we’re on vacation, the attributes we have as individuals, we might show up as leader or levity or generosity. We might be loving or compassionate and those are the attributes usually when you’re in the beginning of a relationship of any kind, but in business when you meet someone they bring their best attributes usually forward. When you notice those attributes, that’s really important because as business goes on, unfortunately we switch. We become assertive, aggressive, angry, we become demanding, our confidence, we have doubt and insecurity. That can affect your relationships so in the sales context when you honor someone’s greatness, no matter what is happening in your day or who they’re being and you show up with your best attributes… Let’s just say you have a deal where somebody’s going dark, “I don’t understand what’s happening, I thought I had a good relationship, I thought I asked the right questions, I had it in my funnel at 70%” but you can’t reach them.
A lot of times what a salesperson or any human being will do is their fears will show up, their insecurities will show up, their disappointment, their frustration so they switch from leader, compassion, patient, positive attribute into story. “What does this mean? I can’t believe they’re treating me this way, what’s that about?” When we do that, our communications change as well. Even if we think we’re writing a nice email, the energy is different and your message is absolutely different.
What I tend to find in those situations when it starts to go sideways or you have something you as a salesperson are managing and now you can’t reach the prospect or the person you think you have this relationship with, what do you do? Who do you become, how do you handle it? I tend to tell people, “Pick up the phone and make it about them, remind them of that future vision and then also ask them for guidance. Don’t make it about the deal.” Say, “I want to make sure that I’m really taking extraordinary care of you aligned with your vision. Perhaps you can give me some perspective, is there anything I could do better, differently? You can only do so much at the relationship level if they don’t engage but here’s the thing, if you always stay in a positive way and you never pull out the snarky, condescending, fearful, direct voice, today just may be the day that deal won’t go through.
When you leave them great no matter what’s happening, they’re going to remember that even if you never do business again, they’re going to remember how you made them feel and how you left them through their transaction and they may not have done the best thing by not calling you back or not telling you what’s going to happen. You’re sitting here with a giant question mark like, “I still don’t understand, I need closure” but if you stay in your best and greatest and you leave them great no matter what happens with the deal, they will always remember your professionalism, your integrity, your trust and how you treated them.
Fred Diamond: I want to ask you a very specific question and get your specific advice, how do you fight being snarky? Let’s say there’s a deal you’ve been working on for a year, the customer says, “We’re definitely going to do it” and you’ve told your boss, “On the pipeline it’s 90%, boss it’s going to come in” and then they go dark and then they send you a quick note, “Sorry, we’re not going to do this this year” and you were counting on it, you’ve already spent the money. I get it, you want to be in your best self and you want to be nice to them because one of the things we also hear from the podcast is it’s a long game and that deal may reappear. How do you not be snarky? How do you fight the temptation to send those flaming emails? How do you fight that temptation?
Diane Cashin: We all know what happens to people in social media, for example when they don’t take a moment. It used to be years ago they’d say, “Count to 10” and all that and that’s hard to do, but when you’re in the moment that’s an automatic response that’s coming. Fear, frustration, anger, hurt, disappointment but you get to choose. This is the difference of those who rise up and those who don’t, the people who have that automatic knee-jerk reaction, they’re going to plateau at a certain point in their career but it’s the evolved leader that realized – through probably years of situations – where they can actually take a breath and say, “Okay, I’m so angry right now.”
Maybe they go do some kick boxing or throw some stuff, who knows? I’m not saying don’t feel that way, you just manage it in a more private way, talk with your manager about it, do not do it publicly, definitely don’t do it with the client. If you can stand at that fork in the road of choice and say, “Instead of me switching to my fear and my anger showing up, I’m going to choose to take a breath and I’m going to go back.” Make a list for yourself, what are your best attributes that make you you? What is it that people love about you? Write that list for yourself and then when you’re standing at choice of, “I’m so angry right now”, read that list and be that person. Be your best self and it may take a day but don’t show up don’t let anger, fear, negativity run the conversation or narrative. You don’t usually recover well from that.
Even when you’re not getting the deal, stay in that positive place and continue to support that person, continue to say really great things about them and the deal and the company. Always bring your best and greatest, write a list of what makes you so awesome and then read that list.
Fred Diamond: Again, were talking today with Diane Cashin. Diane, I want to ask you for your final tip, you’ve given us such great insights today. Again, I recommend everyone go out and purchase the book, Squeeze More Life Out of Time. Where can you find the book, on Amazon and all those places?
Diane Cashin: My publisher is AuthorHouse so it’s best to get it there if you can.
Fred Diamond: Before I ask you for your final thought, I want to tackle one more topic, it comes up all the time as well, it’s persistence. I used to work for a woman, my first job out of school, she had a placard on her wall which said, “Persistence is our key to success.” What does that mean? Why aren’t people as persistent as they need to be? We’ve interviewed some Sales Game Changers who’ve said, “It wasn’t until the 15th call that I finally got the meeting” yet a lot of people stop after two or three. Let’s talk about persistence, why is it a problem? Why do the Sales Game Changers that I interview bring it up? Why do they need to tell the people working for them they need to be more persistent and how can you become more persistent?
Diane Cashin: I think there’s something about that word in a way. I don’t know what the connotation of the word persistent triggers, but words do land on people in a certain way so sometimes people feel like if you’re being too persistent, you’re being pushy or assertive or aggressive, I look at that word and say, “What does persistence mean in terms of my ability to at least get a clear go, no-go?” As long as I have an open question mark, I need to stay on course. It might be determination, it might be dedication, it might be consistency so as long as it’s not answered, there’s still work to be done. The question then is why do people stop? What is the relationship to multiple touch points? Where do they get stuck or stopped?
You go from all in, you’re super excited on one side and then you make a couple calls, you do a couple things and then something happens and then your energy starts to run out, and you get to the other side and then you’ve got nothing for your effort and you let go but you still never know what happened. When you look at that continuum, where is it you get stuck or stopped and why? You can actually draw this out because there’s probably a fairly good pattern for you of how many times you asked a question or how many times you ask for something before you say, “Okay, I’m done, I’m out, now I’m wasting my time.”
It’s a balance, you want to stay focused on what’s most important, you don’t want to spend a lot of time on things that aren’t but if you can, in your spare moments, pick up the phone and call that person again, ask yourself what are you afraid of or what’s in the way of you making that call or reaching out again? Why are you stuck or stopped? What is it about you – not them – that you need to take a look at? It may just be no for now, or it could be they don’t need the solution. Give it a couple more tries, push yourself a little further than you usually do, but at some point you do have to make a go, no-go in terms of wasting time and that gets you back to the focus. “I’m going to focus on the big deals, I’m going to focus on what the most important things for my company and my customer or clients are and on these other things that I’m incubating, I’m going to maybe approach it a different way.
Persistence may not be on the deal, maybe I shift and my persistence is I start sharing some emails and some interesting things because I know so much about them because I prepared.” [Laughs]
Fred Diamond: We have Sales Game Changers listening all around the globe, why don’t you give us one final thought to inspire them today?
Diane Cashin: When you get up every day with the intention to make a difference for other people and you have the support of your team, and you are fearlessly connecting with people from a place of caring about them and you ask those questions so you really seek to understand before you seek to be understood – I think that’s a Covey quote – it’s not about you yet, then they’re going to have a good day, you’re going to have a good day and that funnel is going to get richer and richer. Good selling, everybody. When I think about selling I even change the word, “I’m just going to go care about somebody today, I’m going to care about what they need and hopefully there’s a good fit for me and my company.”
Fred Diamond: One thing you said when we came back from the break and you just said it again – for the Sales Game Changers listening, for all the Sales Game Changers we’ve interviewed – it’s not about you. It’s about the customer, it’s about your team, it’s about your company. I think if you make it about you, you’re going to fail or you’re not going to achieve the great levels of the super professionals that we talk about.
Diane Cashin: Some people may just say, “I just want to carry a bag and sell” and that’s an okay thing, there’s nothing wrong with that but if you have aspirations to rise, that’s the key to it. People want to do business, as we say, with people but it’s more than that. It’s the connection, the trust, the integrity and the work that you’ve done, how you come through the hard times together. The last little piece of that is you mentioned I was with Cisco and I worked with these big companies and I worked in healthcare IT for a long time with big companies. The challenge is what do you do when you’re in a smaller company? Because those big brands, you call and they take the meeting. I worked for service disabled veterans as well and nonprofits and still, it’s the same thing.
When you make it about somebody else and you’re not trying to say, “Hurry up, get through that last part because I can’t wait to tell you what I’m going to do for you today, what can I do to put you in that car today?” Because you never want it to feel like they’ve been sold. You want them to feel cared, that you’ve consulted with them, that you really helped them solve a problem and in the end it’s a mutually beneficial win and the relationship will grow and they will trust you in the future and you phone will ring when they need something again.
Transcribed by Mariana Badillo
Produced by Rosario Suarez