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Today’s show featured an interview with Marketing and Sales leaders Suzanne Behrens and Amir Capriles from Granicus.
Find Suzanne on LinkedIn. Find Amir on LinkedIn.
SUZANNE’S TIP: ““Content must differentiate and influence. Buyers are smarter and more selective, so we need to deliver real value through every interaction.”
AMIR’S TIP: “The best sales reps run their territory like a CEO runs a business. They plan, they execute, and they lead with differentiated value.”
THE PODCAST BEGINS HERE
Fred Diamond: We have Suzanne Behrens and Amir Capriles on the show. This is very exciting for me. We’ve decided to do some shows bringing together a sales leader and the marketing leader to talk about where sales and marketing are today. We’re doing today’s interview in February of 2025, and we’ve seen a lot of shifting in the world, especially over the course of the pandemic, where customers have gotten more information on their own, and they’ve gone to the web, and they’ve gone to social media, and now they’re going AI in a lot of places to get information. How sales communicates things to customers has shifted, and how sales and marketing have to work differently has changed. I’m excited to engage in this conversation with Amir and Suzanne, as one of our first interviews in this format, to get some insights. Let’s get started here.
Why don’t you both introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about what you do for Granicus, tell us about what Granicus does, and then we’ll get started. Amir we’ve known you since we created the Institute for Excellence in Sales, that’s the sponsor of the podcast. I’m going to give you the first opportunity to introduce yourself since you were one of the first people who came to our events when we first launched. It’s great to see you again on the show.
Amir Capriles: I’m the Chief Revenue Officer at Granicus. Just had my three-year anniversary at the company. My job is to ensure that our sales team is aligned with our mission of empowering government agencies with digital solutions that enhance public service delivery. That means ensuring our sales teams are equipped with the right tools, right data, and strategies to engage decision makers in meaningful ways.
Fred Diamond: Suzanne, introduce yourself.
Suzanne Behrens: I’m the Chief Marketing Officer at Granicus, I would say Amir’s partner in crime. I’m responsible for marketing across Granicus, which includes all facets of marketing, from product marketing to brand and communications and segment marketing, lead generation and relationship marketing. In addition to our BDR function, which is our business development reps, they’re responsible for generating new lead generation opportunities that are setting up meetings for the sales teams.
Fred Diamond: The reason we’re doing this interview is because the roles of sales and marketing have shifted over the past few years as the buyer has access to more information than ever before. Tell us, as marketing and sales leaders, what you’re most focused on as it relates to that.
Suzanne Behrens: I’d say there’s a few areas that we’re hyperfocused on, and we’ll probably touch on a lot of these themes throughout the day today, because I would say as a marketing leader, our primary focus is trying to meet customers where they’re at in their journey, by delivering content that they’re looking for at the right time in their journey, and ensuring that we’re providing personalized experiences for our customers. Customers have access to information more than ever before, and so we’re trying to prioritize having very clear marketing positioning, leveraging data-driven insights to help ensure we’re creating meaningful engagement at the right points in time through compelling content, thought leadership, and very targeted outreach.
I’d also say we’re leveraging a lot of AI tools to improve our efficiency, ensure that we’re providing right information at the right time. Then most importantly, we are really laser-focused about our seamless collaboration between sales and marketing. I think Amir and I both share a fundamental belief that we are one go-to-market team, so we’re laser-focused on partnering with our sales teams to ensure that we’re driving common objectives and priorities.
Fred Diamond: Amir, Suzanne talked about the sales teams. How are things going for the sales organization today? We’re doing today’s interview in February of 2025. If you’re listening in the future, we just had the inauguration, so a lot of things are happening in this space. How’s the sales team working together?
Amir Capriles: Suzanne said I’m her partner in crime. I run sales and revenue functions and she runs marketing. Our approach is really very intentional to be one go-to-market organization. That works really well for us. We’re very intentional about it, and we have joint goals, joint accountability. Oftentimes, I tell her she can actually have meetings with my directs, and in many ways we’re interchangeable. Those lines are blurred in between the two organizations, and we have very similar goals. Not only do we do it internally, our sponsors, when we have board meetings, we present together. The goal often typically is growth, drive bookings, drive sales. In many ways, when I hear her talk about the goals, I feel like her goals are my goals and vice versa. Really it’s a joint collaboration and joint accountability.
Fred Diamond: We have people listening all over the globe. Not all of them are involved in public sector, but most of our listeners are involved in enterprise or complex selling. Let’s talk a little bit about some of the specific challenges that have emerged, not just over the past five years, but even over the past decade or so that makes selling to enterprise customers more complex. There are a lot of unique things in selling to the federal government and public sector. Let’s talk about some of the things that have really emerged.
Suzanne Behrens: There’s a few things I call attention to. Selling to enterprise customers is become increasingly more complex. There are longer and more complex buying cycles. Large organizations now involve multiple stakeholders in the purchasing decision, which often will require consensus across various departments. From a marketing perspective, that means we need to ensure that we’re expanding the buyer’s map for our sales teams, making sure that we are getting multiple buyers in the decision making, driving interest, awareness, and consensus across multiple stakeholders.
But it also means that buyers or customers, especially in public sector, they have access to a ton more information than ever before, making them a lot more educated. On one hand that’s super valuable, but on the other hand, they’re a lot more selective before engaging with sales organizations. Our message has to be really carefully and thoughtfully designed for specific outcomes, for specific use cases that those customers desire. There’s more of an increased expectation for personalized consultative interactions more than ever before.
Fred Diamond: Personalized, it’s interesting. Amir, what are some of your thoughts on what Suzanne just said?
Amir Capriles: Obviously a plus one what Suzanne said, but I think I would add a couple things that from the sales side are really, really key. I would add that procurement processes are more rigorous. I know you mentioned government. From a government perspective, there’s certainly more scrutiny and oversight on overall spend, is taxpayers’ dollars. That makes a lot of sense. Government sales compliance and security concerns remain top of mind. Sales teams need to understand not just our products and services and our offerings and our competitive differentiators, but the regulatory environment and funding mechanisms our customers are dealing with. We’ve all heard the expression follow the money. I would add you also need helping your customers access those funds. The procurement process tends to be something that you’d have to pay a lot of attention to and have a deep understanding of.
Fred Diamond: Suzanne, based on what you just said, and Amir, what you just said, what needs to change for the sales and marketing organizations to be successful today? Not just today, but for the foreseeable future?
Suzanne Behrens: I believe the single most important ingredient for success is having a strong alignment between sales and marketing. That’s going to be a common theme for me because it’s something that Amir and I mentioned that we foster within our organizations, and I think we do really well. We have the same goals. If they don’t make their bookings targets, we’ve both failed. If we meet or exceed our targets, we celebrate together, we strategize together. Marketing sits in the sales meetings, we collaborate on campaigns, programs. We have shared tools so that it creates a unified approach to things like lead generation and lead nurture and conversion. I think a lot of marketing and sales organizations are not as tightly-aligned and may not collaborate, and I really think that’s crucial for our long-term success.
Fred Diamond: Amir, let’s talk about sales specifically. What are some of the specific actions sales organizations need to take to help their teams appreciate the new selling environment to achieve success?
Amir Capriles: We just got back from our sales kickoff in Long Beach, and I would say unequivocally, you must invest in training. I believe in this notion of an always on enablement in sales to stay current, whether it’s industry matters, whether it’s product, solutions, services, competitive landscape. I believe that our sales teams need to be industry experts, in our case government, not just product experts. We must also leverage data-driven selling. Data’s important. It adds to the credibility. It cannot be anecdotal. Understanding customer behaviors, intense signals, engagement history to personalize, which Suzanne is big on personalization and the outreach, really, really key. Of course, working closely with marketing to align on messaging and value proposition is critical. Again, another example of how we don’t expose the seams to the customer in that journey from messaging, branding, outreach, all the way through sales.
Fred Diamond: Suzanne, I’ve been a marketing leader at various points in my career, and I’ve been fortunate to have spent tens of millions of dollars on every possible marketing thing that there is. Give us an insight today on what some of the most effective marketing strategies might be. Why don’t we start with content? The other thing too is it’s so hard to get messages through to customers now. There’s a lot of ways that government customers shield themselves, but the public sector markets, I remember one of my past guests once said that selling to the federal government was like being in the NFL. It’s the most competitive space. Everybody’s here. My office is in Northern Virginia. Within three miles of me are all the large technology companies. Give us some of your insights into what some of the top marketing strategies might be right now.
Suzanne Behrens: You mentioned that it is a crowded space, and you also mentioned what role does content play. I think content really plays a crucial role in not only influencing but also in differentiating. Customers are conducting extensive research before they even engage with organizations. Content has to really serve as a critical marketing tactic. Some of the things that we’re doing as building awareness and thought leadership through high value content, whether it’s a blog post, white papers, or benchmark reports that we produce that are of high value, utilizing SEO, optimized content ensures the visibility. When customers are searching for solutions, they’ll find Granicus.
We live in this on demand self-service world, so customers are expecting more and more self-service. It’s how they live their personal lives. They’re going to expect it in their professional lives. We need to provide more self-service opportunities for customers to learn and engage on their own and create their own self-discovery journeys to help them throughout their journey. We support the buyer’s journey from top to the bottom of the funnel. Whether you’re at the top of the funnel creating social media and blog posts, to the middle of funnel where we may have success stories and webinars, or to finally the bottom of the funnel where we’re generating product demos and ROI calculators. I think making sure that you have tactics across the entire funnel, top to bottom, is going to be critical.
Fred Diamond: Amir, I’m going to put you on the spot here. I’m just curious, as a seasoned sales leader, what are your three most, I hate to say favorite, but if I had to put you on the spot and say, “Suzanne could only do three things,” what would you tell her would be the three things, or for people listening in the marketing side, as a sales leader, to help your sales team be successful, what are the top three things that you as a sales leader look forward and desire?
Amir Capriles: From marketing, again, the partnership, I believe that the tight integration of creating that go-to-market organization, or at least the approach to the business, joint accountability joint targets is absolutely key to the success. I would say setting targets and setting goals that are mutually beneficial is very key. The one thing I would say from a marketing standpoint, it’s just being able to be agile. You mentioned earlier we’re in the middle of a new administration. There’s a lot of changes going on in the DC area and in federal specifically. The ability to be agile and with your branding, with your messaging, and to understand the current events and be able to adapt to those very quickly is paramount to success as a go-to market combination to sales and marketing.
Fred Diamond: I’m curious on what both of your key messages are to your leadership and to your teams. Amir, what is the main message that you’re trying to get across to your sales leaders and the professionals on the team? Then Suzanne, the same question for you, what is your main message to your marketing teams right now?
Amir Capriles: It’s interesting. To me, sales is no longer just about hitting quotas. It truly is about solving problems. My ask of my teams and sales professionals, are you solving the problem? Are you solving the big problem? Are you having those conversations with your customers? To me, the best sales reps are trusted advisors, and I know that we’ve used that term in the past. You need to listen more and sell less. You shouldn’t be selling, you should be listening and trying to work through the problems, and always lead with value, differentiated value. As I mentioned earlier, we just returned from our annual sales kickoff in Long Beach. Our theme there was playing the long game appropriately, a little bit corny, but that’s what it was. We spent a fair amount of time with the sales leaders on the theme of being comfortable, being uncomfortable. It’s the new normal for growth in solving problems. That mindset, you bring that to a sales call, you bring that to a partnership, you bring that to addressing problems, and you’re going to be successful.
Fred Diamond: Suzanne, what are you telling your marketing teams?
Suzanne Behrens: Amir mentioned solving problems is key. I would say very similarly, marketing needs to design their programs and campaigns and messaging around the outcomes that customers are looking for, and meeting the customers where they’re at. Personalizing customer experience designed for the outcomes that they’re looking for, they’ve come to expect that personalized on demand services. Providing that ability for them to self-discover and that personalization experience is going to be critical.
Fred Diamond: Let’s talk about customers for a little bit here. Customers are challenged in public sector right now. We’re doing today’s interview in February of 2025. There’s a lot of change going on in public sector, specifically federal. Let’s talk a little bit about what your customers are looking for from your sales professionals to support their missions. Suzanne, I’m curious, after Amir answers, on how marketing is supporting what’s needed?
Amir Capriles: It’s interesting. In my opinion, customers want salespeople who understand their world. Nobody wants to be sold to. They’re looking for that deep understanding. They want that connection and understanding the outcomes that they want to achieve. What that means is that we must be knowledgeable about government processes. We must understand policy changes. I mentioned funding earlier, procurement, understanding funding opportunities, I also think is key. They also expect, just from a mindset perspective, the transparency and a partnership. Again, nobody wants to be sold to. It’s having that connection, having that empathy and deep understanding, and bringing that point of view that is differentiated. As salespeople, we work with a number of customers, so when you bring that perspective into other conversations, that is incredibly valuable.
Fred Diamond: Suzanne, how about you? What are your thoughts on that?
Suzanne Behrens: I would mimic everything that Amir said. I think having a deep understanding of what customers are looking for and designing those messages to meet them where they’re at. Traditionally, it used to be a features and benefits conversation, and I think largely we are moved away from that. It’s all about the outcomes that customers are looking for and how we’re solving their problems and being empathetic through our marketing to their needs and what they’re looking for. I think having that lens is going to be crucial, that deep understanding of the customer and meeting them where they’re at based on the needs that they have. It’s not a one size fits all anymore.
Fred Diamond: If it wasn’t a Sales Game Changers Podcast, we would have to ask about AI. We could talk for hours about AI. As a matter of fact, the Institute for Excellence in Sales is offering our first AI for Sales Excellence Award at our event on May 1st, how companies are implementing AI for success in sales. Why don’t you briefly give us your thoughts on how AI is changing sales and marketing right now at Granicus.
Suzanne Behrens: AI, as everybody knows, it’s top of mind, it’s revolutionizing sales and marketing, not only to drive efficiency, but that personalization that we’ve talked about, and the deeper targeting of customers. You’re reaching the right customer at the right time. We’re using a variety of AI based tools that help forecast customers’ needs and their buying behaviors based on historical data, based on their current intent, by analyzing their engagement patterns and their online behavior. It helps us target the right customers when they’re in a purchasing and decision-making phase.
We are using predictive lead scoring to help us prioritize those high-intent prospects. We use AI based tools to help automate simple tasks like email outreach and follow up and regular communications with our customers. Like many, we deploy a virtual agent on our website that can handle those customer inquiries and direct them to the right information that they’re looking for that helps drive opportunities at the top of the funnel. The bottom line is, AI is really reshaping marketing by making our lead generation, our thought leadership a lot more efficient and helping customers find the information they want at the right time and helping us target customers where they’re at in their journey.
Fred Diamond: Amir, how about on the sales side?
Amir Capriles: For us, on the sales side, AI is helping us prioritize leads, analyze the customer sentiment, and automate repetitive tasks. Most of our tool sets have now built in AI capabilities. I think one of my favorite is we record calls for training purposes and just to understand, and it’s a great way for us to stay focused on the conversation and not take notes in those types of things. Then we map it to our sales process and we derive a bunch of insights and it identifies gaps. All that data now is incredibly valuable for us as we continue to build these relationships. What it does is that it gives the sellers, the sales reps, the space to focus on building their relationships much faster and focus on that as opposed to the administrative or the repetitive task. It’s really accelerated our insights to help build those differentiated point of views in those relationships. It’s incredibly powerful and it’s everywhere, as we all know. It’s very interesting to see the adoptions so fast.
Fred Diamond: This is the first Sales Game Changers Podcast we’ve done where we brought on a company sales leader and marketing leader to talk about how sales and marketing need to work together today to be more effective. The insights that you, Suzanne and Amir, have provided for our listeners on the Sales Game Changers Podcast today have been beyond my expectations. I want to thank you for that.
Before I ask you for your final action step, give us your insights. Amir, what are the best sales reps doing today? Then, Suzanne, how about the best marketing professionals? Give us best-of-breed, best practices, what are the stars doing today to be successful?
Amir Capriles: I think we’ve touched a little bit on these two concepts here. To me, the best sales reps are data driven. We talked about AI. They support their point of view, they support their research, they support their discovery, they understand, they derive the data. But they also have that customer centricity and customer obsession. That deep connection with the customer combined with the data-driven approach and the adaptability. I touched on the exciting times that we’re going through. Being adaptable, customer centric, and data-driven are key components. Leveraging that technology to enhance, not replace, the relationship building.
I always say, one of my cheesy expressions, that they run their business like a CEO runs a company. They have a plan and they execute on it. Like Ben Franklin said, “If you don’t have a plan, you’re planning to fail.” That’s what I think of the best sales reps.
Fred Diamond: I tell salespeople too, I said, “You got to treat yourself like you’re the CEO of your career.” You happen to be working for Granicus at this time and for the foreseeable future. You want to make sure you’re optimizing their opportunities, but it’s your career. It’s up to you to do all the things necessary to take yourself to the next level. Suzanne, how about the best marketing professionals?
Suzanne Behrens: I wouldn’t say it’s much different for a marketer. It’s about having that accountability to truly understanding the customer, using that data to deeply understand the customer, the marketplace, the ever-evolving landscape. I’ll reinforce the theme I said earlier, being closely aligned with their sales team so that they are working towards the same goals, making sure they’re targeting the customers that the sales team needs support around. Then now today’s days, putting customers at the center of everything that we do, and using AI to target the right customers at the right time. You could spend a ton of money and just throw stuff out there and hope it sticks. Those days are gone. It’s really about using the right tools to make sure you’re targeting customers at the right time with the right message, because you’ll have a much higher return on investment.
Fred Diamond: I remember when I was at Apple, I was in marketing in my first job, and my boss said, “You need to go to all the sales meetings.” He said, “Just go. The defense team is meeting at noon on Friday.” I would go and I would sit on the side and they were wondering why I was there. Then eventually I was paying attention and offered some ideas, and I would move to the table. Then eventually, a couple months later, they would ask me questions. I tell that to marketing people all the time, even with AI, even with all the information on the internet, you got to have that personal relationship to understand what’s really driving the business.
For all the people who just listened, give us a final action step. You’ve given us so many great ideas. Give us one action step, something specific that our listeners should do right now to take their sales career to the next level.
Suzanne Behrens: I’ll sound like a broken record, but the most important ingredient is sales and marketing partnering together. I can’t emphasize it enough. I’ve seen where it doesn’t work and it fails, and I’ve seen where it does work. Having those unified goals and metrics and making sure that they’re shared goals, and ensuring you’re both compensated on the same goals, is going to be critical for success.
Fred Diamond: No, that’s such a great point. I remember some of my best memories in my career were on sales calls, as the marketing person going to customers and seeing how they interacted and remembering the conversations all along the way. Amir, bring us home. Give us a final action step people should do to take their sales career to the next level.
Amir Capriles: In sales, we always coin the ABC, always be closing. I would change it slightly and say, always be curious. Never stop learning, stay informed, stay curious, and always seek to understand your customers better than anyone else. If you’re not growing, if you’re not learning, you’re dying.
Fred Diamond: Once again, I want to thank Amir and Suzanne for being on today’s Sales Game Changers Podcast. My name is Fred Diamond.
Transcribed by Mariana Badillo