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[EDITOR’S NOTE: This is a replay of the SALES GAME CHANGERS LIVE Webinar hosted by Fred Diamond, Host of the Sales Game Changers Podcast, on June 26, 2020. It featured sales leaders Carrie-Anne Mosley, known readily as CAM.]
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EPISODE 247: Carrie-Anne Mosley Gives Sales Professionals Suggestions on How to Turn Negative Energy into Positive Long-Term Opportunities
CAM’S TIP TO EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “One actionable thing sales professionals should take it is to reach back out to their last 3 managers to thank them. Check in and ask them for one bit of advice. Ask them, “You know me, if I am working to improve myself, what do you think I should do?” Since they’re not your managers anymore they’ll probably tell you what that area of opportunity is. I’ve done that recently [laughs] it was quite insightful. I got a lot of good feedback.”
Fred Diamond: First, thanks again, you’re now with DocuSign, you’re the VP of Federal Business, you were with Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, also Amazon Web Services, you’ve worked for some of the great technology companies, you’re known around the globe as one of the top sales leaders as well and you say it like it is, too. Were very excited to talk to you, you also have some great stories. First off, it’s June 24th, it’s a little after 2 o’clock Eastern time. How are you doing and what are some of the priorities that you’re working on right now?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: Thank you so much for this opportunity, it’s really nice to talk with everyone. Things are going very well, I’m very fortunate to work for a company that has an offering that is really helping the government and organizations around the globe to be more successful in what I think is the new normal in this work-from-home, work-from-anywhere model. In fact, I was listening to the CEO of CrowdStrike speak yesterday on Bloomberg News and he was talking about this work-from-anywhere model because it’s not just about being at home and being sequestered but what is life going to look like in 12, 24 months?
I think companies are seeing this opportunity to have workers all over the globe in successfully supporting roles that may have been logistically limited to an office geography before. I feel so pleased to be working with DocuSign because we have a great solution for that, not unlike the CrowdStrike solution, where we’re helping those companies and specifically my team is helping the government to eliminate paper processes so that they can move to this new virtual world. For us, thankfully and I feel very blessed, we’ve been very busy to work on some very exciting programs with the government customers to get them through this, to be a bridge to that new normal.
Fred Diamond: We’ve interviewed a number of Sales Game Changers on the webcast over the last couple of months and because we’re based just outside of Washington D.C., a number of them like you are in the public sector and we’re nearing the end of the government fiscal year but a lot of companies were fortunate in that they accelerated the government’s path to the cloud and work-from-home and virtual, and your company is like that. I have a quick question, you just started with DocuSign during this pandemic, during this situation. You were at Amazon Web Services when we interviewed you for the podcast, how has the transition been during this situation, during this time?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: I applaud the onboarding team at DocuSign, they’ve done a great job, they sent the laptops out before we all started the new hires and they’ve done a lot of really good sales focused training remotely, they know salespeople well because they’ve kept it very interactive, they call on us, it’s almost like live over Zoom. It’s really been good to recreate the in-person experience, the challenge has been, when I think about it, most of my team, I’ve never actually met in-person. I’ve got one team member who is containing at his home but he’s by himself and I can tell it’s particularly difficult for him, he wants to get together in person so we are planning to have lunch outdoors sometime here in the next week or so. Having that interpersonal breaking bread with your employees I think is a really important thing and one of the benefits of being logistically close, we’re being able to travel together periodically or at least quarterly so that is not lost. We did a virtual happy hour where we had a wine tasting event and we all had wine sent to the houses and stuff but it’s not quite the same as being in person [laughs] so I do look forward to a time very soon where at least we can do some social distance interaction but in person.
Fred Diamond: We’ve been doing this webcast where we interview past Sales Game Changers podcast guests. In the beginning people were adjusting to at-home and even though a lot of our sales professionals were used to working from home it still is a huge adjustment, then kids were sent home, schools were cancelled so there was a lot of that through the end of May. Now, and we talked about this during the pre-show, things are beginning to not really even but get a little more regular even though everybody is for the most part still at home. What are your priorities today? What are the two or three things that you as a global sales leader are spending most of your time on?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: We are doing a lot of hiring and onboarding, as I mentioned. With COVID and the pandemic it has been a tough situation for many companies and they’ve had to furlough employees or let people go, so that has resulted in a very high quantity of top talent to become available for companies like DocuSign who can make an investment now. We have been interviewing a tremendous number of people and trying to really get to know people because sometimes talent that’s available doesn’t always match with the roles that you have but you want to take advantage of those top talent people being available in the market. We’re really being thoughtful and taking a lot of time in trying to assess what roles we have today, what roles can we pull forward from next fiscal year into this year so that we can really take advantage of top talent that’s available in the market today.
That and then onboarding the people that we are hiring, I had one new hire start yesterday, I had someone starting on Monday, I had two people start just a few weeks back. It’s how can we onboard them and get folks to be productive while virtual, and how to give them that experience and give them the training and mentoring that they need. I think mentoring is a very tough thing under normal circumstances where you’re in the office sharing feedback, but now that it’s remote and sometimes the salespeople mentoring one another have never met in person, it just adds a new layer. We’re really trying to be thoughtful and coach our coaches, so to speak and really help set expectations with new hires but help their mentors to have the tools that they need to get them up to speed and help shorten the onboarding process.
Fred Diamond: Speaking about that, we’ve expanded our market, I know someone here is from England, I know someone here is from Belgium and I recognize one or two names that might be from Australia. What’s been a positive surprise for you or something purely positive? We’ve all had to adjust, when I talk to the sales leaders that we interview for the podcast and for the webcast we’re all aspirational people. It was only three months ago that everyone was having an amazing year, 2020 was going to be the best year for so many companies but what’s been a positive response or a positive surprise that’s happened for you during this whole situation?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: One of the things that I’ve experienced like so many other people is being at home. I have not been at home for this long in a row since I was on chemotherapy in 2016 and quite ill, but just like that experience it’s all about mindset. There are certainly days where I am really struggling, my kids interrupting me, my dogs are being bad, I am not able to focus the way I want to on this job but we have to look at the bright side. If we weren’t in this same situation we might be traveling, on the road, missing those opportunities to have those nighttime adventures with our families. I’ve had so many more dinners with my family in the last three months than I had had probably in multiple years prior to that just with crazy schedules.
For me, the biggest positive of this has been a desire and a thoughtfulness around shutting down the computer at 6:30 at night and dedicating the two hours after that to the family. We’ve done some fun things like my husband bought us all scooters, each of us have scooters, my husband’s is really souped up, of course, it’s almost like a motorcycle [laughs]. Mine is like a granny, it has a little basket in the back, we take nighttime rides on the scooters and we just are trying to have as much fun as we can as a family unit and those are happy memories that we would probably not otherwise be making if it weren’t for this COVID situation. It’s really helped me to try to compartmentalize the job and shut down at a specific time so that I have some additional family time because before we know it, as salespeople we’re all going to be back on airplanes and traveling a lot more and then we’re going to lose those opportunities and we’ll be doing Zooms with our family instead.
Fred Diamond: I have a question for you. We were talking before this about some of the big words that we’ve heard and over the 40 somewhat webcasts that we’ve done since everything started there have been some common words, empathy and creativity. You just said mindset, forgetting about the mindset right now you’ve been a sales leader for a long time. I first met you, I believe you were at SAP at the time, then I interviewed you for the Sales Game Changers podcast when you were at Amazon Web Services. Talk about your mindset, again you’re a very successful sales leader, you’ve been with some of the biggest brands in technology. You’d be amazed, when we posted your show – that was a year ago, I guess – we got like 10,000 views on our LinkedIn post so everybody knows Cam and you have this great reputation. Talk about your mindset as a sales leader, how do you go about your day as a sales leader from a mindset perspective?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: For me, I am thinking constantly about customers and secondarily about employees but those two groups really occupy the bulk of my day and my mindset and how can I help my customers to be as successful as possible in their mission. I try to be a very positive person, I’m always a “glass is half full” person and I think if you keep that top of mind for yourselves and you put that customer emphasis first in everything you do, that really helps you to be successful. People around you feel it and hear it in everything that you say and then they embrace that mindset as well. For me, it’s not something that I really do consciously but I am a generally happy person and I think that does make a big difference in the way that you interact with people.
One thing I’ll tell you is the way you see me today would be the way you saw me yesterday or tomorrow on Zoom meetings. I think that it’s very important that despite the fact that I’m working in my home office and I could be in pajamas right now I’m not, I get up every day and I do my hair and I get camera ready with the make up because I want my customers to know that I am focused on them and they are my focus from 8:00 o’clock in the morning until 6:30 at night. My employees, that I take them seriously too, for me that’s a professional mindset, that positive focus on the customer is what has worked for me through this whole thing. Just dressing the part and my neighbors always ask me, “Are you going somewhere?” and some of my employees tease me because I’m in dresses or whatever on the workday but to me, being on this GoToMeeting is no different than us being across the table from each other. I have to be in that mental mindset of, “We’re here to work” so I do that as part of my normal course of my day.
Fred Diamond: That’s a great point, in the very beginning a lot of people were getting used to Zoom and they were getting used to, “Where do we stand?” and those kinds of things. Over the last month there’s been a lot more of an adherence to, “This is sales and this is business and we’re helping our customers and we need to help our company emerge through this.” You’re dressed the part, I’m dressed the part and every day we’re dressing the part. We have a question that came in here through the panel and the question is, “Cam, how have you changed as a sales leader over the past three months?” You talked about you’re spending more time obviously at home, we all are but have you seen yourself evolve or emerge over the last three months as a sales leader?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: Yes. People are busy and sales leaders are very busy so sometimes we forget to stop and say hello. I can’t tell you how many text messages I sent where it’s question first and then, “Good morning” [laughs] so I’ve tried to be intentional and take a few extra minutes at the beginning of every call whether it’s an internal call or customer call just to acknowledge and say, “Hello, how are you?” 9 times out of 10, the customer reciprocates. They want to talk about how they’re doing and I opt to lean in because I want to have that conversation with them to really understand how they are and how’s their family doing during this whole situation, understand their personal challenges because some of them do have work-from-home issues, legitimate ones. I’ve leaned into those asking a little bit more and having maybe a little more personal dialogue. I’ve tried to be scheduling conference calls to be 45 minutes instead of 30 minutes so that I can accommodate a few minutes of social on the beginning and really have a warmer and genuine dialogue, but we’re not constrained by the 30 minute time window. For me, that’s one little thing that I’ve been doing a lot more, scheduling 45 minute meetings instead of 30 minute meetings.
Fred Diamond: How have your people adjusted to virtual? A lot of people who are in sales who work remotely, they’re used to it but it’s different. Things are opening up now, of course, it’s June 24th, 2020 so places are now open, you can go to a Starbucks and sit outside, for two months you really had to stay in your home or just very sparsely go out for places. How has your team responded and what are some of the things you see sticking around moving forward?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: My team I think has done a really nice job although again, I had to remind a few of them that pajama attire was not appropriate and they couldn’t always have just their photo on the screen because customers were showing up on the Zoom meetings and I could tell they wanted to have that connection with us because just like we were at home, they were at home. I had to remind folks, “Let’s come to work, brush the hair, I know it’s a little longer, gentlemen, than it normally is [laughs] but I’m sure you have some gel somewhere in the cabinet, get it going.” Once we got past that, I really challenge people to manage their schedules very similar to the way they did pre-COVID.
You’ve got to schedule time in for customer meetings and Zoom meetings but you also have to schedule time for the other things that are a big part of our job like customer prep, research, all the things that we do to be great sales professionals, we have to schedule time for those. I even find sometimes myself, you get this back to back Zoom meeting cycle and you get to the end of the day and I haven’t looked at my email and I feel like I really haven’t gotten a whole lot done. So, I’ve challenged people let’s be as critical about meeting attendance as we were before COVID. If it doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t move your personal mission, don’t attend the meeting. Let’s meet where we have to but let’s also be blocking off times on our calendar to get some other things done.
One of the positive opportunities that we’ve had is that some of the government customers have been readily available to meet but some of the private sector customers have not had as much availability to meet, particularly in organizations where people are furloughed or they’re temporarily reassigned to a different role. I told my guys to really try to manage their time so they can make good use of that time, so a number of our team members have signed up for Masterclass and they’re trying to sharpen the saw for themselves and really use this time for self-improvement. I’ve encouraged people to do that and manage the schedule that way, I think for me it’s, “Let’s try to take some additional time to get to know our customers a little bit on personal perspective and then let’s also manage the schedule so that we can do some of that self-improvement.”
Fred Diamond: We have a question here that came in from Martin, thank you, Martin. You talked about managing your time, what is your recommendation for your team? Do you recommend from 9 to 5 that they be in front of their computer or do you recommend that everybody be available from 1 to 3? I’m just curious, and how do you manage your time? You mentioned before you’re done at 6 for dinner, is the computer on all the time? And I know you’re hard worker, you’ve always been a hard worker traveling and things like that. Are you chunking out your time more specifically now that everybody is pretty much at home? No one’s really gone back to the office yet, a couple people have started to go back to the office but some of the larger companies are saying, “Wait till September.” I heard even that some are saying January. Are you helping your people physically blocking out the time and how are you blocking out your time?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: Great question because normally we have commute time which is a little down time, I miss my Bloomberg News that I used to listen to driving to the office. When you’re meeting in person or you’re at an office you’re never really back to back and I find that in this new norm of working remotely the calendar gets that full. I intentionally try to block off at least a half hour in the morning, a half hour around the mid-point of the day and then certainly a half hour towards the end of the day every day, if I can, to stay current on email, eat [laughs]. I find one of the bigger challenges is just getting downstairs to grab some lunch. I keep some nuts in my office desk drawer here behind me but you really have to do that and I encourage my guys to schedule time during the day to do a little exercising, I find that helps.
When you’re sitting all day, particularly because we’re not walking from office to office or we’re not walking very far to go to the restroom – it was quite a walk for me at Amazon – we’re not walking into conference rooms, we’re just sitting. I’ve encouraged my team to get off, a lot of them to Peloton, take 20 minute, 40 minute Peloton break during the day. It’s really important that you take care of the body as well as the mind throughout this whole process and then just take a little refresh time. For me, sometimes that 30 minutes I literally go downstairs and turn on Ellen or whatever happens to be on TV at noon and grab a sandwich and take a mental break and time out for 30 minutes. I find that you really have to do that here because we don’t have that commute time which was for a lot of us a really good mental break to be thinking about the day, planning the day.
When your commute is walking upstairs that’s pretty quick and then you’re right into it. A lot of people have said that their boundaries for work hours have been difficult and they’re working late into the night so it’s really important that you schedule that stop time and respect that.
Fred Diamond: Cam, we have another question here. You talked before about starting to have more conversations with your customers so how are you coaching your people to have those conversations right now? In the beginning of this it was a challenge because everybody was getting used to what the new world was like and everybody was figuring out how to work at home and what their new jobs are going to be and how they were going to make all these shifts. Now we’re getting back to a little more normal, business is beginning to start up again but like you mentioned before, there are some customers that have had big challenges.
One of our frequent guests of our podcasts sells to the entertainment space and there aren’t many people going to arenas at the end of 2020 so they’ve had to shift to doing other things as sales professionals. How have your customer conversations been going? You mentioned you schedule them now for 45 minutes but are they getting back to business? How much of the conversation are you using for the empathy or, “How are you?” What’s the tenor and tone and how are you directing your people right now to start having those conversations?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: The big group meetings – and there seems to be a lot of those – are business as usual, no small talk and just jump right into it, manage it like you manage a meeting in person. One of the things I’ve noticed about these large group meetings is less agendas which is a problem. I really stress to my team, “Just because there’s 13 people on the phone, that’s a great Zoom meeting but we’ve got to have an agenda published that everyone agrees to.” That I think is really important with these large groups because now it seems like because people aren’t having to travel from meeting to meeting in person, we’re getting bigger groups on the phone for virtual meeting which can be both plus and minus so got to have a set agenda for those. What I like, the interpersonal, the lean in are those smaller group opportunities where it’s you and one or two customers in person because sometimes they don’t want to be vulnerable in front of their coworkers. I’ve encouraged my team to reach out one-on-one a little bit separate from the scheduled meetings and calls for those people with whom they feel like there may have been some undertone of challenge that they’re having, to lean into that but privately.
The other thing is there are some customers that I know, some of my best customers from AWS who are in the hospitality space who have been furloughed. I’ve reached out to them on LinkedIn because many of them cannot check their corporate email right now but I’ve reached out to many of them on LinkedIn regularly just to say, “I’m thinking about you.” You don’t have a really great thing to say to them, “I’m sorry you were furloughed, I hope you can pay your mortgage” but just the whole thought that you’re checking in on them really makes a difference and makes people feel great. In fact, just this week one of my mentors who is one of the leaders at NEA at California Hilarie-Koplow-McAdams sent me a note just saying, “Wanted to see how the family was doing with COVID, my girls are with me.” Very brave note, took her two minutes to write but just receiving that made me feel super special. I’ve really tried to be intentional and take time out of my day to make some of those outreaches particularly to those customers that I know are affected negatively by this. My customers at Marriott and Hilton, just to let them know that I’m sorry they’re going through this, I know it’s probably really hard but I’m thinking about them and their families. I really believe that when you lean into these moments versus shy away from that communication, it is so much more impactful for folks.
Fred Diamond: Let’s talk about what your expectations are for your salespeople right now. We talked a little bit about showing up and we talked about, “Don’t wear the pajamas and come to work” but for a lot of people now what’s happening is the stresses have changed. In the beginning no one knew anything, then of course over the last couple weeks as a country, as a world we’ve been more conscious of how to interact with other nationalities and how to interact with other people that we might be working with after the George Floyd and the protest, everything related to that. There’s different stresses that have happened, kids aren’t going away for the summer now, every camp is being cancelled. Like you just said, imagine if Marriott was your biggest client and you were booking your number on Marriott, ain’t going to happen this year but you should be doing things. What are your expectations for your salespeople and what are some of the specific ways that you’re coaching them through?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: I try to lean into it with my team to try to understand how these events of the world are impacting them because particularly for African-American employees, everything that’s happened over the last month has had quite a significant impact. Thankfully my company, DocuSign has put in place some great support networks, some great resources, we’ve had some wonderful speakers but I think you really need to lean in with employees and coworkers and just let them know, “I’m sure this is tough for you. If you ever want to talk, I’m here.” It feels awkward to say because you’re like, “I’m not sure” but I think saying something is better than saying nothing. That’s what I’m doing with my employees and I’m encouraging them to do that across our ecosystem with both our customers as well as our coworkers in other groups because I think it is important to let people know in general that we’re thinking about them in the whole scope of everything happening in the world. Not just COVID, not just with some of the racial issues that have been happening here but the confluence of those things really is impacting people and causing a lot of stress.
We want to make sure that we’re helping people to identify that they’re impacted by those stressors and then if they need help we’re directing them to resources to get that help and just letting them know that we’re here to be a sympathetic ear if they want to talk through things. I think that is really important and then also helping people to see that we’re going to get past this time, we’re going to get to a place, I think it is going to be a new normal and you want to me taking the time to do today things that will make you better when that new normal, we’re in it. I think it’s one of those things that’s going to happen and we’re going to ease into it and we’re just going to wake up one day and think, “We’ve arrived, now how do I proceed and how can I continue with my career?”
I’ve got folks doing things, a big one that I’ve taught to a number of people about lately is take this time to work on your own personal resume. Maybe you’re not applying for a job today but you’re thinking about where you’re going in your sales career, you’re thinking about your next role. Right now there’s all sorts of new interview methods in the marketplace, the STAR situational interview seems to be the big thing, Amazon started it but even at DocuSign we had training on it. I tell people, “Train yourself up on that now because whether you’re applying for a promotion in your current company or you’re looking for a job down the road, you’re going to be needing to be aware of that so take this time today to focus on you. Put some of the negative energy you might be feeling into positive things.” The other thing that I’ve seen a lot lately that I’m really surprised about is that sales professionals, in addition to your resume you should have a second document and that document is all about you. It should have your W2’s, it should have by year your quota, your base pay and what you actually earn, your OTE, and what percentage of your quota you were.
You should have this for 10 years at least because in 10 years someone is going to ask you that and you will have forgotten. Some people include it and update their resume as a working document but I can’t tell you how many candidates I’ve seen that have been with the same company for 5 years and haven’t updated their resume regularly, and they’ve forgotten that information. I say, take this time, start your spreadsheet about you, I have it so it has how much I’ve earned, my W2’s, I went and got all my old tax forms out and looked at it and then where I could find the quota sheets and quota letters, I put, “This was my quota for this fiscal year, here was my attainment and here’s how much I actually made.” As well as I went and gathered quotes that people had sent and emails to complement me and other significant things I had done that in three years I might not remember but when I’m going for a promotion or I’m going for that next job I’ll need to reference those stories. Particularly in this day of situational interviewing, those things become very important so turning some of the negative energy we’re feeling into the positive long term I think is something people should be doing.
Fred Diamond: That’s a great bit of advice. We’ve had on the Sales Game Changers webcast sales leaders of very stable successful companies but there’s changes going about everywhere. We’ve found that even sales professionals who’ve had 20 years of success and have created the document like you talked about are also kind of nervous right now. This is a new situation, when we first started the webcast people said things like, “I’ve been through 9/11, I’ve been through October 1987 and I’ve been through the banking crisis, this will pass as well” and it will, like you said. There’ll be different things but it’s taking longer, it’s a lot of additional things. I have two more questions here that have come from the audience and then I’ll ask you for your final thoughts. I love the, “Work on your resume and work on that second document” which is a genius idea. A question comes in here, what are you doing? You’ve talked about how you’ve changed as a sales leader, is there anything specific that you’ve worked on, Carrie-Anne Mosley, over the last three months to improve yourself as a sales leader?
Carrie-Anne Mosley: I’m a big self-educator so I take a Masterclass, I love the art of negotiations topic with Chris Voss, he was an FBI hostage negotiator, they just had one that I started watching which is Robin Roberts, the woman from the television and hers is about authentic communication. I think particularly in the Zoom age authentic communication is really important and then David Sedaris, he’s a writer, he did one on storytelling, a bit part of what we do is tell stories so I found that to be really interesting. I’m also a big reader, I’m reading this book called The Expansion Sale: Four Must-Win Conversations to Keep and Grow Your Customers, came out just this year, it’s been a very interesting book to read.
Fred Diamond: FYI, the very last live program that we did at the IES was with Tim Riesterer who’s the author of that book, he was a guest at the Institute for Excellence in Sales, we’re going to have him on our Friday morning webcast I believe towards the end of July.
Carrie-Anne Mosley: Wow, I threw you that soft ball but that may have been where I saw his name and got the book. I have since actually bought some used books on Amazon, his first couple books so I have the whole series that I’ve been working through, pretty good stuff. Another thing that I’ve been doing is reaching out to people that I haven’t talked with in my network in a while, going on LinkedIn and just dropping people a note. I find whether I’m having to check a reference from someone, keeping those contacts is always valuable and I try to add a little value when I reach out but sometimes it’s just a, “Hi, missed you, was thinking about you.” I’m not a big person to thank people for their time because yes, it’s a gift but it implies that your time isn’t as valuable.
What I love to do is thank people for what they told you, what specific advice they gave you, how a conversation that you had with them impacted your actions in some way. I’d like to try to make it a little more personalized, the thank you, so I’ve gone back to some people lately and just said, “You probably don’t remember but this is what you told me and it’s really impacted me in these three ways and shaped some decisions that I’ve made” and I think people really appreciate hearing that, at least that’s what they indicate. I’ve been going back and reconnecting.
Fred Diamond: I’ll go back one second, thank you so much for all the great information you’ve given us, the great ideas, the great insights, how you’re working with your team, how you’re working with your customers. We have about a minute left, you’ve given us so many things, we like to end all the IES webcasts and live programs with one thing that peoples should do today. It’s June 24th, it’s a little before 3:00 o’clock Eastern time, give us one thing that the listeners should do now or in the next hour to be more successful as a sales professional, one actionable thing that they should do.
Carrie-Anne Mosley: One actionable thing is I think they should reach back out to their last 3 managers to thank them, check in and ask them for one bit of advice. Ask them, “You know me, if I am working to improve myself, what do you think I should do?” Since they’re not your managers anymore they’ll probably tell you what that area of opportunity is and I’ve done that recently [laughs] it was quite insightful. I got a lot of good feedback.
Transcribed by Mariana Badillo