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Interviewing Fred for this monumental episode was LinkedIn Top Executive Voice Leader Kathy Obad.
Find Kathy on LinkedIn.
FRED’S TIP: “If one person listens to my podcast, then one person listens to my podcast, and I’m impacting one person. Now, I want thousands, but if you’re making a difference with one person, and I know that the Sales Game Changers Podcast has done that, because people have told me. I know that the book has done that, because people have told me. Some people tell me they read it before they go on a sales call. The Love, Hope, Lyme book, I know that’s impacting lives in a very, very challenging world. Anything we could do to make the world a better place is a good thing, even if it’s one person at a time.”
THE PODCAST BEGINS HERE
Kathy Obad: Fred, first of all, I just want to let you know what a pleasure and honor it is for me to host you on your 700th podcast episode. Thank you. Above all, congratulations. I wanted to take this opportunity to go into a little bit of our history. We’ve known each other for years. I met you while I was working for the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. Right away, I knew that you were someone who was deeply passionate about both entrepreneurship and sales. You are the President of the Institute for Excellence in Sales. You’re not only the president, you’re a co-founder, which is pretty amazing. You also lead the organization. It is such an important one for B2B sales leaders in the world. Your impact in this field is absolutely quite remarkable.
One thing that I really love about your story and what resonated with me is when you started in 2017, the reason why you wanted to start was it was a tool for your marketing. It ended up being something so much more profound for you. It really emphasizes something that I talk a lot about where it’s not about the destination in life, it’s the journey. Through that journey, you discovered that you really like connecting with people, and that you really like sharing their stories, and that became your focus. It’s not about not knowing or knowing where we want to go and how we’re going to get there. It’s following your passion and you will arrive.
I’ve always respected you, but when you published Love, Hope, Lyme, it really hit me on another level. I was going through a challenging time in my life, and I do share it a lot on LinkedIn. I was going through a challenging time in my life, and that book became a guiding light, not only for me, for both me and my daughter. It connected on a deeper level. It didn’t just help us navigate our situation. I think it was a profound reminder that we’re not alone in this. We’re not the only ones facing these types of things. I would recommend the book for anyone dealing with any hardship. You’ve written a lot of books, but that one is going to be the top one for me. It’s closest to my heart because of my experience.
Now, I am so excited to pick your brain and learn about your expertise and your insights. Are you ready?
Fred Diamond: I am. Thank you so much. Actually, it’s a great point you just made. We’re talking about the 700th episode of the Sales Game Changers Podcast. You’re extremely vulnerable and authentic on LinkedIn about things that have happened along the way with you. You talk about your childhood and being the daughter of immigrants. You just posted something recently about your mother’s early years and things that she did to get established. You’re up in Canada. Have you always lived in Canada, by the way?
Kathy Obad: Yes. Boring, because I didn’t move much from my circumference of where I started. Yes, I’m in Canada and I’ve always lived there.
Fred Diamond: But you got such rich history. You’ve also been through a couple of career changes as well since I’ve known you. You did some things and then you moved into cybersecurity. We talk about sales a lot. One of the things that we’ve done over our 700 Sales Game Changers Podcast episodes is we’ve had about 150 of them focused on women in sales. My partner, Gina Stracuzzi, who runs the Institute for Excellence in Sales Women in Sales programs, would interview sales leaders.
You’re right, the highlight of my day is doing interviews on the podcast. We’ve started a second show called the Sales Story and a Tip Podcast. I recently did a show, which is part of Sales Game Changers, where I talked to a guy named John Knotts who wrote a book called Crossing the Zone of Fear. We took his book, I read it, we sparsed it out to seven different episodes. That was a fascinating process, going through our fears and then how we overcome them. I’m looking to do more on those, finding some great books that I could talk to the author about. I appreciate your following the journey.
Kathy Obad: No, it’s amazing. You’re definitely someone I look up to, so I’m so honored to be able to host this for you. First of all, when you started in 2017, have you ever envisioned reaching this milestone of 700th episode?
Fred Diamond: I really didn’t. The reason I started doing the podcast, and before the pandemic, I used to do them in-person. I would go to a VPs of sales office and I really used it as a top of funnel thing. I would say, “Hey, I’d like to interview your VP of Sales at Oracle,” or IBM or Microsoft, whatever it be. “I have this new podcast. I’d like to come to your office, interview you.” Before the pandemic, we did a lot of shows like, “Tell me about a great mentor. Tell me about a great sales success. What’s something that you would recommend to your younger self?” things along those lines. I really did it because I needed to meet sales VPs, and they’re my customers.
Kathy Obad: It’s not only clever, it’s brilliant, but it’s also bold. It takes a certain type of guts to step over that fear threshold that you’re talking about, pack your car with microphones, and confident enough to walk in and bring it. You also have to do your homework about the guy. You got to know what kind of questions to ask. It’s pretty amazing how it all started and why it all started. Now we’re here.
Fred Diamond: Well, you know what, though? I told you this before, I used to be a DJ, so I was very comfortable in front of a microphone. But you know what else? When I was in college, I was the editor of my college newspaper, college was Emory University down in Atlanta. I love that. I thought I was going to go into journalism as a career. The reason I’m telling you that is, as I was doing these podcasts, yeah, being bold in front of the microphone is one thing. But I was curious. As a reporter, as a journalist, you have to have that curiosity. You want to find the truth.
Same thing with the podcast. It’s like, “Tell me about a great story. What did you learn from that story? How did you teach other people about that story?” Something you just mentioned. I really wasn’t afraid to do the interview because I had to. If I wasn’t going into the offices of these women and men, I wouldn’t have built my business. We wouldn’t have an Institute for Excellence in Sales if I didn’t start the podcast, because I don’t know how else I would’ve met some of these people who have become friends. We’re doing today’s interview in the summer of 2024. Some of them have become friend friends. Like let’s go have a drink type of a thing, and it broke down those barriers.
Kathy Obad: What would you categorize yourself as? More sales or more podcast/storyteller/editor? You’re a man of many traits. I’m not even sure because what you’re doing, you’re pitching constantly. You beautifully are doing it because you’re creating these great relationships, and they’re becoming your friends.
Fred Diamond: That’s a great question. I have an MBA in marketing. I worked in my early stage of my career in marketing at Apple Computer for about seven years, in Compaq Computer. But I always saw the value of sales. I knew, even though I was in marketing, if sales didn’t happen, the doors were going to close. Nothing happened until the sale was made. I always knew, even as a marketer, that if I wasn’t helping accelerate the sales process, then it would be a waste of time.
When I created the Institute for Excellence in Sales, it was mainly to get more leads. I was an Outsourced Marketing Officer. Now they call it fractional, but I used to call it outsourced. Most of my companies were hiring me because they had sales problems. I needed to meet more salespeople. We created the Institute for Excellence in Sales. I needed to meet a lot more of them. I created the podcast. In the beginning, a lot of these men and women, they do a lot of speaking in front of customers, in front of sales teams, but they’ve never really told their story, so I gave them an opportunity. I liked the way you brought that before, I gave them an opportunity to, “Tell us, why are you such a great sales leader? What is it about you? Why would somebody want to work for you? Why would somebody want to partner with you? Why would a customer want to do business with you?”
You don’t become a VP of sales at Microsoft overnight. It’s a 15, 20, 30-year journey of relationships, hard work, preparation, success. I said to them, “I’m going to give you a chance to tell this story, which you’ve probably never told to people.”
Kathy Obad: We all love hearing good stories. I could see why your podcast is so popular, because we all love good stories, so do toddlers. I love what you did.
Now, reflecting on your journey, what do you believe has changed the most since your first episode?
Fred Diamond: I went back and I listened to some of the episodes. When you do 700, you have a process. Like anything, I want to get a message out from people. I’ll be honest with you, with 700, there’s only a handful of shows that I never ran. One show I produced and the guy called me the night before and said, “I just quit my job. Don’t run the show.” I was like, “Okay.” The only other episode that I can think of is I interviewed someone and I told them, “Give nice short answers, no more than 30 seconds, because the number one audience is my audience.”
I always think about, one, is this a listenable show? If people are giving me a half an hour of their time, I want to make the half hour work. If they’re on their bike, if they’re mowing their lawn, if they’re driving somewhere, if they’re doing the dishes, whatever it might be, I want to make it worthwhile for them. Then I want to make it worthwhile for you, my guest. Then I want to make it worthwhile for the Institute. It’s just not a hobby. This is part of my business. It’s part of my marketing activities. One thing that’s changed is I’ve gotten to the point where I really know how to get something of value from people so that the listeners will get value from that.
Kathy Obad: I love that. Everyone’s most precious commodity is time. If I’m giving it to you, even if it is on my bike, listening to your podcast, I could listen to another podcast, so make it worth my while.
Now, for someone thinking about starting a podcast, what key insights, advice would you share? Is podcasting truly for everyone? Or are there particular traits or passions that lend themselves to this medium?
Fred Diamond: I learned relatively quickly that podcasting is a marketing tactic. When people say to me, “Hey, I’m thinking about starting a podcast.” I tell them two things. If it’s to have fun, like you want to do a podcast with your wife about managing children, or if you want to do a podcast with your buddy about beer and basketball, just go have fun. Get a couple good mics. Get a good place to put it and have fun doing it. It’s a lot of fun talking to people about something you’re passionate about.
But the other thing I tell people is if it’s part of your business, treat it seriously. The same way you would treat any other marketing tactic. Get a good mic, know how to distribute, know how to give good interviews. I’ve seen podcasters, they talk too much. Every show I’ve ever done, I’ve had a guest, which is why I asked you to interview me. Every single show I’ve had a guest. I’ve brought people on a couple of times, and I’ve had two or three guests on the same show. I don’t do a show just me. Who cares about what I have to say? I don’t even care what I have to say.
I’m interested in VP of Sales at Microsoft, VP of Sales at Hilton, VP of Sales at Oracle. Tell me what’s important. Tell me what your customers want to hear. How are you working with customers now? We’ve been through a ridiculous amount of ridiculousness the last four years. Before the pandemic, we would tell stories, we would talk about a mentor, we would talk about lessons. When the pandemic kicked in, I wasn’t meeting people in their office anymore. Everything shifted to doing the interviews over the internet. I had to get to, “What are you doing now?” Because people who were listening were like, “I don’t know what to do.” Let alone the beginning of the pandemic, even in the last three years, people were still trying to figure out, okay, it’s changed with how I talk to customers. How do I talk to customers today? How can I get in their office? How can I get them to pay attention to me? Also, people have changed. If you’re a great leader, how are you leading your people? People’s urgency in getting information has still continued to drastically increase.
Kathy Obad: Out of your first 700 episodes, can you share any conversations that stand out that maybe inspired you or motivated you in some way?
Fred Diamond: This is before the pandemic, and I tell people this all the time. My daughter, when she was in high school, she was a competitive dancer. She had a competition in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. For people who do or do not listen, Pigeon Forge, Tennessee is the home of Dollywood. Dolly Parton’s whole business enterprise is based in Pigeon Forge. I went to LinkedIn and I searched Dollywood and I found the VP, she was Director at the time, of sales at Dollywood. Her name was Cordelia Marzak. I was doing the interviews at the time in-person. I reached out to her via LinkedIn and I said, “Hey, I’m Fred Diamond. I do this podcast. I’m going to be in Pigeon Forge because my daughter has a competition. I’d love to interview you for my podcast.” She got back to me and said, “Let me run it through our PR department,” and she did. She said, “I’ll meet you Sunday morning at eight o’clock in Pigeon Forge in our Dollywood offices.” I was very excited.
I met her at eight o’clock on a Sunday and we did the interview in a conference room next to Dolly Parton’s office. Here’s the thing. Everybody loves Dolly Parton. There’s nobody who doesn’t love Dolly Parton. She was just inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. She sold hundreds of millions of records. She donates millions of dollars to causes. There’s very few people like her. Cordelia just told stories about how kind she was, how Dolly Parton remembered everybody’s name, and how they used that for sales, et cetera.
But here’s the twist that I tell people. Cordelia Marzak had very little LinkedIn presence. A lot of the value of my podcast was interviewing people and they would post it on LinkedIn. I would post, and then they would share. She had maybe a hundred connections on LinkedIn. I used to joke, it was probably my least listened to show of all time because no one could find her on LinkedIn, but I remember that interview to this day. It was 2018, maybe the spring probably, because my daughter was still in school. That was a great one.
One other one, I interviewed a VP of sales at Adobe, and this was on January 6th, 2021. Now, if that day rings a bell, we did the interview at two o’clock and at that point people were watching us. We did the interviews over GoToWebinar and I would get anywhere from 200 to a dozen people watching us physically do the interview. Then I would convert it to an audio podcast. There were times we had 400 people and people would submit questions and it was a lot of fun.
We had 50 people register for this one, and I noticed that nobody’s logging in. We did the interview and it was great. VP of sales at Adobe, it was a great interview. Then I said to him, I said, “Hey man, this was great. I don’t know why nobody logged in to watch us, but whatever.” That was the day that the insurrection happened at the US Capitol, January 6th, 2021. everybody was focused on watching their TV to find out what was going on in Downtown DC. I was wondering, “Where is everybody? We had 50 people register.”
Kathy Obad: It’s just funny, people’s focus shifted and everyone was worried, and there you have it.
Fred Diamond: But you know what, though? Almost every show I get excited about. I give people ground rules. I say, “Don’t go too long.” If it’s a panel, “Give the other person some grace.” If they don’t talk too long and they have something to say… And we do a lot of vetting before we bring people on the show.
Kathy Obad: Makes sense, because sometimes the story goes a little bit long and people can lose focus. I get that. As you said, as an audience member, I don’t have hours to listen to it. When my son’s talking, when he was little, I always used to say, “Land the plane. Get to the point.” It makes sense that you’d have to have a process like that.
Now, I need to know, out of the 700 first episodes, has there ever been a story that truly touched your heart and brought you to tears?
Fred Diamond: That’s a great question. I remember one. As you know, we do a bunch of shows with women in sales. I wrote a book about Lyme disease, so I’m very in tune with people who have chronic illness. There was a show I did, it was in-person, it was before the pandemic. It was with a woman in sales leader. Again, I was going to people’s offices at the time. I’m not going to mention her name, but it was a woman in sales leader, a VP of a well-known company. She started telling me stories about how she was abused in the first part of her career when she was a young lady. She claimed to have been physically and verbally abused. It was very touching.
We had just created our Women in Sales program and we work with amazing, successful, empowered women in sales. But in that environment, sometimes they’ll talk about traumas and things that happened along the way where they weren’t treated the way they should have been. This particular woman was very forthright in what happened. As we were doing this interview, I didn’t see it coming.
Kathy Obad: She shared it during the interview? Not offline.
Fred Diamond: No, it was during the interview. I forget the exact question. It was something like, “Is there something from your early part of your career that you want to share that will give people some insights into how far you’ve progressed?” I remember she just went right into it. In my head, I was like, “Well, I didn’t expect that. I didn’t know that,” and the recorder’s recording. She obviously wanted to tell it. She knew we were recording. I don’t know how much of a story it was in her life publicly, or at least within her family and friends. I remember I hugged her afterwards. Yeah, there’s some stories like that.
I used to ask, “Tell us about a mentor.” There are some stories where people would reference a mentor. In some cases a parent, like a father who obviously was now passed on. That was one that my guests would be choked up about that.
Kathy Obad: You know what? They’re ready to share it with you and with everyone else, and it becomes part of their therapy, I believe. Wow. Impactful. Do those stories get listened to more? What would you say, what are your top listened-to topics? Is it emotion that makes your audience go for it?
Fred Diamond: You know what? It’s mostly the person. Of the 700 shows, we post it up on Apple Podcasts, which about 80% of audio podcasts go through Apple. Then there’s Spotify and Google, and there’s about another dozen smaller ones. Every show I do gets at least, depending on the last six years, anywhere from 500 to 2,000 downloads, just as a show. As you know, I post every show on LinkedIn. I’ve interviewed a couple of sales leaders who maybe they were a sales leader at two or three different companies at the highest level.
I remember I interviewed a guy named Mark Weber who was the President of NetApp USA, and I think he might’ve been at Sun and some other companies. People love this guy. When I interviewed him, he had retired and he was teaching sales at the Catholic University of America. We did the interview down at CUA, it was a great interview. He’s a smart guy. We then took a picture of the Basilica on the campus of the Catholic University of America. It’s one of my favorite pictures that we’ve ever done. That show got like 20,000 downloads because this guy was well known. Then people shared my LinkedIn posts.
Even some of the best interviews, maybe number 300. For example, there’s a guy named Brian Ludwig who’s a VP of sales at a company called Cvent. They have a couple hundred salespeople. I tell my guests this, you’re telling things that people don’t normally get to hear you say. Spread it around your company. Send it to your partners so that they can listen to it and know who you are.
Kathy Obad: Now, beyond simply Podcasting episodes, what creative marketing strategies have you found effective in promoting your podcast? How do you go about that?
Fred Diamond: Like I mentioned before, a podcast is a marketing tactic for your business. I did the podcast mainly to get leads for the Institute for Excellence in Sales, and my customers are VPs of sales. By being in an intimate setting with them in their office, even over Zoom, talking about why they’re so great, it’s called the reciprocal bias. They want to help. I’ve started a little different. Now even before I do the interview, I talk a little more about the Institute for Excellence in Sales. But at least afterwards I’ll say, “Hey, we have a program coming up for women in sales. If you have women on your team, you should send them to this particular program.”
You mentioned in the intro that I’ve written two books. I wrote a book on Lyme disease awareness called Love, Hope, Lyme and I wrote a book called Insights for Sales Game Changers. We took the top lessons from the first 425 shows and put it into a book. It’s on Amazon and it sold, but I’ve gone to IES customers and signed books in their office. There’s a lot of things you can do with a podcast.
Kathy Obad: What a valuable book to have. It’s not just your insights, it’s 400 episodes. Brilliant. I love it. Now, looking back, any regrets with things that maybe you could have done a little bit differently in your podcasting journey?
Fred Diamond: I’ll tell you a funny story. When you start a podcast, you have all these ideas. Obviously, there’s Joe Rogan, who’s the number one podcaster in the world. Millions of people listen to his podcast. I remember thinking when I was starting it in 2017, “Maybe it’s going to slip through the cracks and it won’t just be a niche. It’ll be a million-listener podcast.” I became friends with the guy at the time who had the top sales podcast, and I actually even arranged to meet him. My main question was, how many downloads, which is basically the word for listens, do you get per episode? I expected him to say, I get a couple million or 500,000. I said to him, “How many downloads do you get per show?” He said, “On a good day I get 800.” I was like, “All right. I guess I’m not going to be the next Joe Rogan.”
I said, “I’m not going to make a fortune on the podcast,” and very few people do. I’ve had sponsors, Cox Communications has sponsored programs over the years. Again, I use it as a main lead generation source for companies to become partners, members of the Institute. One thing I might’ve done is I might’ve written a book quicker. I published the book in 2022, which was five years after I started. I’ve been thinking about writing a book since almost from day one, because I’m building all this content. I could’ve done it a little quicker.
I might have done more on social media. I do LinkedIn. I don’t know how much of an audience there is for what I am doing on TikTok or Instagram, but I might’ve done more social media. Again, I run an organization called the Institute for Excellence in Sales. When someone says something, I think to myself, “Yeah, that makes sense.” But a lot of times I’ll see people post on LinkedIn or Instagram, “Make three more phone calls a day,” and then there’s a thousand likes, a thousand comments. I’m like, “Duh,” but not everybody knows, and they might listen to somebody a different way. I might’ve done more than that, but generally, I’m pleased. It’s helped us grow the business. We’ve made a lot of friends. I could probably reach out to 90% of the people that I’ve interviewed on the show and have a conversation with them, either just for fun or for business.
Kathy Obad: Fred, I would go beyond saying, just pleased with how far you’ve come. I think it’s pretty remarkable. I think you’re a pretty busy guy. I think what you’ve done and the life that you’ve created for yourself, because I don’t just think it’s a 9:00 to 5:00 and we leave work behind. It’s making sure we love what we do every single day. You’re connecting and you’re sharing people’s stories and you’re sharing it with an audience. It’s a really fantastic thing. I don’t think you missed out on any other social medias. I think you found exactly what you needed to do. I think it’s an amazing thing. Which brings me to how has podcasting transformed you personally and professionally? Because it really was a big part of you for years.
Fred Diamond: Again, I wrote the two books, the Lyme book and the sales book in 2022. The sales book was a result of doing 450 some odd episodes of the podcast. When I published the Lyme book to further elucidate and get the messages out there, I created a podcast. I also do a podcast called the Love, Hope, Lyme Podcast, where I interview advocates, doctors, people who’ve created Lyme communities. I get thousands of downloads per show. It’s a different community. There’s a lot of information out there. If you want to get better at sales, you could type in sales improvement. There’s a million things that come up.
I love when someone says to me, if I reach out to them and I say, “Hey, you’re a VP of sales at Sony, or whatever it might be, love for you to be on my podcast,” and they reply back with, “Yeah, I remember that episode you did with John Smith,” and that was episode number 327. He said, “Yeah, I used to work for John. I remember you did that. I listened to it a couple times.” Because you don’t think about it in those terms. It’s like, “Okay, I’m interviewing Joe Smith because I want Joe Smith to become a customer of the Institute for Excellence in Sales.” But sometimes you forget that the show is out there.
One of the fun things I like to do as well is a podcast is forever. It’s out there. People when they search, let’s say they search Joe Smith, Joseph sales, there’s a good chance my podcast is going to come up. I track every week the number of interactions. Sometimes I’ll see Joe Smith’s show just got 50 interactions, even though I posted it three and a half years ago, Kathy. I’ll reach out to Joe, I’ll say, “Are you hiring or something?”
They always say, “Yeah, how do you know?”
I’m like, “Well, because your podcast just got 20 new listens and we did the show three and a half years ago.” There’s no reason why, unless they want to maybe do business with you, but usually it’s because they’re looking to work for you or maybe they’re going to hire you or something.
Kathy Obad: That’s a beautiful thing. The information is out there. I love that you had your Lyme podcast, because I don’t think there’s enough of that. Dealing with both my daughters and their autoimmune diseases, there’s not much support. Having that, I can see that as being a tool for many people, and how things might hit someone is going to be different for everyone. Yeah, it’s a great tool if I’m job searching to see and hear their voice and hear how they speak. I love it.
Now, as you reflect on your journey, are there any final thoughts of wisdom you’d love to share with aspiring podcasters, like maybe me or maybe your audience? What would you like to leave people with? What words of wisdom?
Fred Diamond: For listeners, we end every show, I’ll say, “Hey, Kathy, you did a great job. You gave us so many great bits of advice. Give us a final action step people should do right now to take their sales career to the next level.” I’m going to say two. One of the key messages that keeps coming across every single show we do, is that you need to communicate your value. Customers can get information over the internet. They can get it on social media. The role of the sales professional has changed. Customers don’t need you to talk about features. They don’t need to have you talk about benefits. They need you to talk about how can your solution help them achieve their goal, whatever it might be. Growing the business, saving money, moving into new markets. If it’s public sector, educating students better. If it’s government, achieving the mission of the agency, whatever it might be. As you’re out there, sales professionals, or business owners, or solopreneurs, think constantly. It’s not about you. It’s about the value you’re providing.
The last bit of advice, which actually is one for you. I wrote two books. I was 60 years old when I wrote my first two books. People were like, “What took you so long? We thought we were going to do this.” If you’re thinking about writing a book, write a book.
Kathy Obad: You and I spoke about that already, and I’m like, “Yeah, Fred, a book’s coming.”
Fred Diamond: If you’re thinking about starting a podcast, start a podcast. It’s really easy to do. All you need is a good microphone. You could do them over Zoom. The audio ones you have to host on a provider, but you can go right to YouTube. For someone like you, Kathy, think about the messaging that you do every day on LinkedIn about health and about relationships. You also post sometimes about your business, cybersecurity, and what it’s like to be a mom and your children. You have such a presence about you that you could easily do some kind of show and get a following relatively quickly.
You have a presence about you on camera. You like to post pictures when you do your posts of yourself out there driving. You should think really hard and quickly. We’re doing today’s show on September 19th, 2024. Yours would fly. The reason I asked you to do the interview with me is you post something, and next thing you know, an hour later there’s a hundred comments. Everything you post.
The other thing is, I tell people this, if one person listens to my podcast, then one person listens to my podcast, and I’m impacting one person. Now, I want thousands, but if you’re making a difference with one person, and I know that the Sales Game Changers Podcast has done that, because people have told me. I know that the book has done that, because people have told me. Some people tell me they read it before they go on a sales call. The Love, Hope, Lyme book, I know that’s impacting lives in a very, very challenging world. Anything we could do to make the world a better place is a good thing.
Kathy Obad: Fred, your words of wisdom, number one, if you impact one person, job well done. If you changed their world for the better, applaud yourself. Second, like Nike says, just do it. Is this a dare? Am I dared to do a podcast? I also want to know, when’s book number three.
Fred Diamond: It’s interesting. After I published the Lyme book, I got 20 suggestions for the follow up book. Love, Hope, Chronic Illness. Love, Hope, MS. Love, Hope, Dementia. I think what we’re going to do is I wrote the book relatively quickly. It’s won a couple of awards. It’s given me friends all over the world. I think what I’m going to do is I probably need to update it, even though it’s only been out for two years. Since I’ve started doing the Love, Hope, Lyme Podcast, I’ve learned much more about the complications. It’s probably going to be the next one, volume two or whatever.
Kathy Obad: Amazing. I can’t wait to pour over it. Thank you for everything. Thank you for inviting me to host today. It has been an incredible pleasure. I had so much fun. Congratulations on your 700th episode. Amazing, my friend. You are truly an inspiration to all of us. Thank you for your words of wisdom, and thank you for your time today.
Fred Diamond: Thank you, Kathy Obad. My name is Fred Diamond. This is the Sales Game Changers Podcast.
Transcribed by Mariana Badillo