EPISODE 362: Brian Krause and Vaneet Bhaskar Share What’s Needed for AI Sales Success

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[EDITOR’S NOTE: This is a replay of the Sales Game Changers LIVE Webinar sponsored by the Institute for Excellence in Sales on May 11, 2021. It featured sales leaders at Digitial.ai Vaneet Bhaskar and Dragonfruit.ai Brian Krause.]

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Find Vaneet on LinkedIn here. Find Brian on LinkedIn here.

BRIAN’S TIP FOR EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “For a technology like AI, salespeople need to find the “angel in the sale.” The angel is the person that wears the halo and represents the halo effect of the technology in the environment. If you could find that angel and say, “I’m working with so-and-so over here on their specific problem, but I want you to also be aware that we’re looking forward to the results in how much happier your people are when they start using our technology and how it impacts their morale.”  Finding the angel and thinking about that halo impact, can really help to differentiate the way we’re thinking about working with that customer, not just selling to them.”

VANEET’S TIP FOR EMERGING SALES LEADERS: “Now more than ever, we have tremendous channels available to us to connect and get our messages out. We tend, as sellers, to take that for granted. We have a unique perspective to offer, we see problems in and out at various companies, different industries, various verticals. Leverage that, build a brand for yourself as an expert on LinkedIn and Twitter. Start to post content. Make it so that your prospect has heard of you. They’re going to want some degree to impart that knowledge because AI is such an interesting and net new space to some degree in terms of how it’s being applied.”


Fred Diamond: We’ve got Vaneet Bhaskar and Brian Krause, thank you so much for being here today. This show is dedicated specifically to AI, thank you so much.

Vaneet, why don’t you go first? Give us a little bit of an introduction and tell us how things are going right now for you and for your sales organization.

Vaneet Bhaskar: Fred, first of all, thanks for having me on. You do such a great service for the selling community at large and I’m happy to participate today. I’m a sales leader at Digital.ai. Essentially, what Digital.ai is providing our place in the market is looking at Fortune 500 and Global 2,000 companies. Looking specifically at the software development and delivery value chain and that supply chain and orchestrating solutions that are effectively trying to maximize efficiencies to that supply chain.

If you think about any modern business today, essentially it is a technology business when you’re transacting your revenue streams through application and digitized services, or you’re meeting your customers through an app. That supply chain of software to the business is absolutely critical and core part of strategy. Everything we’re doing at Digital.ai is really helping IT keep pace with the demand that business is putting on that supply chain.

Specifically in the AI world, since we’re really talking all about AI today, we’re instrumenting AI applications across that entire value stream. If you think about everything from software ideation to project planning to software development to delivery of applications, often times it’s a complex, siloed environment. Lot of tools, lot of process, lot of people.

We’re actually taking prescriptive analytical applications that are making sense of all of that data flow to increase efficiencies, giving predictive insights around how I maximize developer productivity. Where do I look for blockers? How do I understand cost and risk capabilities within that value stream? It’s an incredibly exciting place to be right now just given all of the emphasis that’s being put on competing in the digital economy by most of our customers.

Fred Diamond: Brian, tell us a little bit about you. Tell us what your company does and tell us a little bit more about how things are going right now for your sales organization.

Brian Krause: Appreciate being here, share the same sentiment as Vaneet in the service that you provide, so thanks for having me. I’m the sales leader at Dragonfruit AI, our business is around computer vision. We help customers get a better understanding of what’s happening in their physical space through existing investments that they’ve made in IoT sensors.

Business is really good. There was a time, the last 12 months, of course where we saw physical space come under attack. We talked a little bit earlier about working from home now. But I think business is good in a sense that there’s never been more of a focus on company’s investments and physical space and how they can automate a lot of how they manage their operations.

Overall, business is very good and we’re talking to tons of customers about how we can help them to use computer vision to automate what they’re seeing.

Fred Diamond: It’s May, we’re doing today’s show live. What’s happened is with our Wednesday webinars, it’s really been about two things: how are the sales leaders directing their teams to interact with customers, and also, how are you as sales leaders motivating your teams? Brian, let’s start with you. What are your top priorities? Give us a top three. When you wake up every morning, you lead these new efforts. Then Vaneet, same thing with you. What are the top three priorities for you every day as a sales leader right now?

Brian Krause: Top priorities for us, being a sales leader, of course is current quarter, next quarter, making sure that we’re continuing to deliver and grow the business, of course. But beyond that, I think it’s really a focus on helping the sales team members to break through.

I think one of the challenges that we see out there right now is that most organizations have doubled and tripled down on a lot of the same mechanisms to try to generate customer discussions. It’s created this massive environment of noise and breaking through has become exponentially more difficult.

I spend a lot of time working with our team on how we’re able to break through, and at the same time, talking and staying focused on the vision of the company. These last 12 months in particular, there are a lot of folks I talked to and in my network it has been frustrating and challenging for some.

I think it’s important that we stay focused on where we’re going or what we’re out to accomplish and not get caught in the day-to-day roller coaster that these last 12 months has brought us. That’s probably where I spend 90% of my time, including, of course, taking with customers and helping engagements along.

Fred Diamond: We’re going to go to Vaneet here in a second, but I want to follow up after he gives his answers about his priorities, about something you just mentioned. You used the word break through, but differentiate is a word that comes up all the time. There’s a lot of words, as our listeners know, that have come up a lot over the last year: empathy, preparation, service, things like that.

Differentiation is a huge one, especially now, like you just said. You’ve got a lot of people here, AI is a buzz word. To be perfectly frank, the reason I found out about you guys is I went to LinkedIn, typed in, “Vice President Sales AI” and you both very generously appeared. I’m thrilled to have this conversation and learn about what it is you all do and how you’re doing it today.

I want to talk about differentiation, but Vaneet, why don’t you go first? Answer the original question. What are your big priorities right now? Every day, what do you wake up ready to do? And you also have a unique background as well, you’ve worked in a lot of startups and you’ve been successful helping get sales programs involved with startups as well. Tell us your priorities and then let’s talk about how sales professionals can differentiate themselves.

Vaneet Bhaskar: Great question. Some of the same top priorities as Brian, in-quarter deal progression making sure that we’re hitting targets. Weekly deal progression is something I like to drive. One of the big top priorities for us, if you look at Digital.ai, we’ve come through and we’re a newly formed company based off five acquisitions that happened in the course of the last two years, one of which was a previous company I was CRO of.

Our big top priority is getting our message to the market right now and qualified pipeline, ultimately leading to top of the funnel pipeline for us. We’ve got a great market story to tell, it’s the right story at the right time. But given the pandemic, a lot of the marketing plans we had at the start of last year and then moving into even the back half of this year have gone out the window.

I liked Brian’s use of the word noise. We’re doubling down on some of the virtual events and trying to meet customers and prospects where they are. It is a lot of signal noise at this point. So, spending a lot of time figuring out how you craft the right series of messages and what are the right virtual events to get to, to really break through and get that message out. That’s a big top priority for a lot of the sales leaders here at this company.

Fred Diamond: Brian, let’s go back to differentiate. Let’s talk again about the breakthrough, the noise and the differentiation. You said you give some advice to your team, everybody wants to know. What are some things sales professionals can be doing to differentiate themselves in this marketplace?

Brian Krause: I think right now it’s very important for salespeople to take a step back and do their homework. Selling in AI solution, selling within the AI category is really a great opportunity right now, because most organizations that you come across have a much broader AI strategy beyond what it is you sell.

So, taking the time to understand that and where you can craft that message to figure out how you fit within the broader enterprise strategy of AI adoption and tailoring the message there. And helping the specific line of business user that you’re speaking with understand how you can help them join in that, and how all the other business units using AI to contribute and to reduce cost or drive revenue, you can get into that mix.

You can start participating with the right solutions, of course, and we’re here to help you understand how to do that. The homework piece is critical and capitalizing on the AI buzz word, not from a marketing perspective but more from an enterprise-specific perspective is a huge opportunity for salespeople right now.

Fred Diamond: Vaneet, I want to follow up with you on what Brian just said. I want to get a little bit deeper into selling AI solutions. A lot of our viewers here and a lot of people who listen to the Sales Game Changers podcast sell technology, software, enterprise solutions. A lot of them have sold cloud solutions, it was a great year for a lot of the people. Again, I mentioned in the beginning Amazon Web Services is a Platinum Sponsor of the IES and we do a lot of work with Dell Technologies and Microsoft as well.

Talk about some of the conversations, Vaneet, that your team is having with customers about AI specifically that might differ from other technology solutions.

Vaneet Bhaskar: It’s a great question. Part of doing your homework, you really have to when you’re selling and positioning AI solution, it’s certainly what we’re doing. You’ve almost got to work from the outside in, you really have to understand prescriptively the problem you’re trying to solve, and then back into the AI solution that you’re positioning with that customer.

It’s table stakes to understand your own solution, your own market, your competitors. What you really have to do is understand the customer in front of you. What vertical am I positioning into and what are those specific problems in that vertical that this AI solution is going to solve for?

And not only solve for, but also, what we’re finding is you have to really have a value story that goes along with that sale. Part of that is, as Brian mentioned, a strong ROI. It’s so key to contextualize an AI sale, it’s really not just what problem I’m solving, but what is my rate of return?

Given that some of these areas, especially in what we’re doing is breaking new ground. Instrumenting AI solutions on top of a software delivery value chain, these are net new discussions for organizations. In large part, they’re trying to figure out what their strategy is going to be when it comes to this particular area.

Fred Diamond: I have a question. Brian, this might be directed to you. You made a really good point that there’s a lot of companies that sell a different piece of the AI solution. Is most of your sale right now to integrators, to partners to become part of a bigger solution? Or is it directed toward the end user? How does that mesh out in the AI sales space right now?

Brian Krause: It depends on the company. Us specifically, we’re in scale mode so we spend a certain portion of our time trying to enable the channel and build out the channel with the appropriate partners. But my team hears me say it all the time, nobody sells on product better than us.

If you’re not directly engaged with the customer, if you’re not out there driving demand and bringing those customers potentially to your channel partners to demonstrate value, you’re probably going to have challenges. I think you need to keep that in mind and focus on it and really have a seamless strategy for direct approach to the market and driving the demand at the customer level.

Fred Diamond: Vaneet, what do you see? Where does a channel play in or integrators or entities like that in getting your solution to the marketplace?

Vaneet Bhaskar: It’s a good question. Most of what we’re doing today is direct to customer, but we are cultivating a channel in two areas. One is with the system integrators, because if you think about the work they’re doing, it is broader in nature where they’re often times helping craft and shape an analytics strategy for a Fortune 500 or a Global 2,000.

The other interesting thing that we’re doing is because most of our AI applications sit on top of very common large workflow platform systems like ServiceNow and Atlassian Jira, we’re actually partnering with some of those technology vendors. Because they’re actually trying to up level how that data is being viewed and analyzed to create some degree of stickiness in their organization to be a part of that strategy. That’s one that’s working well for us as well.

Fred Diamond: We have a question here from Daniella and it’s an interesting question, it’s about networking and about how you network. It’s a long question but I’ll narrow it down into two sides. Vaneet, you mentioned before you’re determining which virtual trade shows and virtual events to participate in. If you could talk a little bit about how that’s part of your sales process now.

Also, you mentioned you’ve got to build some of these relationships with the channel and with the technology providers where your solution can be a piece. Talk a little bit about how you’re doing networking in this virtual world where we’re not really getting on planes yet and we’re not getting back into events, per se.

Most things, we’re at home, we’re in the home office communicating. Vaneet, general answer to that and then Brian, I’m interested in your thoughts as well. How are you directing your teams to do those kinds of things?

Vaneet Bhaskar: There’s tiers of our marketing approach. One is the global marketing programs and those are hitting the large virtual trade shows and such. We’re actually doing some AB testing on much more curated events.

Some of our sellers have had great opportunities and great success by creating CIO or C-1 forums on LinkedIn where we’re bringing an industry expert or sharing some type of knowledge in a very small, curated round table. That seems to be working well, those types of smaller, more intimate events where we’re bringing a featured speaker or we’re showing some things that are really forward-looking as a part of our solution.

We’re trying multiple avenues for reaching our customers where they are. As you know, so much of what we’ve done in the past is meet them in their offices and at these trade shows and over dinners. In lieu of that, we are seeing success. My takeaway is we’re seeing a lot more success on the smaller, more curated events than the global larger virtual trade shows.

Fred Diamond: Brian, how about you? How are you managing those types of aspects of the sales process?

Brian Krause: I would agree a lot with what Vaneet said. We’re doing very similar things, we’re also looking to leverage our global partners to broaden our exposure. They’re doing events and hosting more curated events on specific topics. Either with a captive audience of existing customers or new, somewhat qualified prospects where we can get right down to the messaging and help drive awareness from that perspective. We’re doing a lot of the same things that Vaneet and they are doing over there at Digital.ai.

On a personal level, if the question was related to personal networking, I think it’s a great time to, as I call it, network by proxy. Salespeople know a lot of salespeople, we’ve all been to the trade shows and met everyone else in every booth, trying to understand how you can help each other to grow your business and be successful as salespeople. Picking up the phone when you’re hearing things in a sales meeting that might not relate to what you’re selling but might relate to something you know someone else is selling.

That stuff goes a long way toward saying, “I got some inside information, I got a tip, they mentioned this, this customer might have a problem, you might want to do some digging over there.” You’d be surprised how quickly that can snowball into a nice little network of people sharing information to help you be personally successful.

I’m doing a lot of that encouragement for my sales team. Don’t just talk to customers all day, but figure out where we sit in the tech ecosystem and how we can add value across that ecosystem. Both corporate-wise and personally.

Fred Diamond: We’re getting some specific questions about selling AI and how people could be successful at selling AI. I want to ask one quick question, then I have a specific question that comes in from Donna. Donna says, “Are there any characteristics you look for in potential sales professionals when selling AI applications?”

Before you answer that question, give us a little bit of a taste of where we are in the AI adoption stage. Are we still in the early Wild West, or are we right smack, we’ve crossed the Chasm – the great Geoffrey Moore book – and we’re now entrenched and you’re competing against similar companies? Or is it still people don’t really know exactly what AI is, come in and educate us?

Give us that answer and then a similar question is tell us what you need to be good. Brian, you mentioned preparation, homework, but we’ve got a lot of people here who listen to the Sales Game Changers podcast because they want to know, should I make a career change? Or is that the next technology for me to focus on?

Vaneet, why don’t you go first? Where are we in the sales history of AI? Then what does it take to be really good to work for a company like yours or for Brian’s at selling artificial intelligence solutions? Then Brian, you take the question after Vaneet.

Vaneet Bhaskar: I’ve been in this space for the last eight years and I’ve seen it progress in a very interesting way in the sense that eight years ago, and I can speak to AI specifically for IT, it was a lot of evangelizing of value. “This is important, this is why you want to do this, Mr. Customer.” That pendulum has now swung the other way.

There’s a recent Gartner CEO survey that’s come out where they’re saying AI is one of the biggest areas they’re going to invest in for ’21, ’22.  A lot of what’s causing that is the rate of pace that business is putting on IT for applications and services. Now, CIOs and CDOs and CTOs are looking for competitive advantage within their IT space.

The singular best place to do that is through AI, it’s through leveraging all of the data I’m amassing to create more value and unlock more value for the organization. So yes, I’ve seen a very big shift specifically for AI as it relates to IT. Now more than ever is a great time to look at this space.

Now that we’re seeing project and dollars and investment being put into this space, there’s still a lot of education that has to happen because some of this is very much net new. To the second part of your question, what are some of the things that I look for in terms of characteristics are sellers that are going to actually dig in and sell AI to IT.

First and foremost, you have to be consultative in nature. You have to really understand, to my earlier point, about digging in and understanding the problem you’re trying to solve for. You have to have a growth mindset, what I mean by that is you have to constantly be learning in this space. I do it every day, learning something new every single day. That’s the pace at which change is happening in this environment.

You take good consultative skills with a growth mindset with ability to also, it’s more of a softer skill, but have high EQ, have emotional intelligence. People buy from people and being able to translate that prescriptive solution that you’re driving from an AI perspective to put some degree of an emotional quotient on it is important. I think those are three characteristics I would look for from somebody that’s wanting to really get into this place of selling AI and be really successful.

Fred Diamond: Brian, same thing for you. Let’s take the second question because we have a lot of questions coming in here. What are some of the characteristics that a person needs to have to be successful selling AI solutions for the next couple of years?

Brian Krause: I would agree with, again, everything that Vaneet said. Characteristics-wise, that’s exactly the character traits you look for. Skill set-wise, some of the things I look for are around what I’ll call the difference between someone who knows how to sell a customer on a problem they had yesterday, versus selling a customer on the problem they didn’t know they had.

If you can be that type of person to help the customer see the light and see how automating and machine-learning and AI more broadly can actually impact the organization as opposed to just going in and trying to whack-a-mole, you’re going to be largely more successful. Probably not only with one piece of your solution, but you’ll be able to develop a more consultative sale and potentially, a bigger customer at the end of the day, as Vaneet inferred. That’s one of the key things.

I also think as we talked about earlier, there’s a lot of noise out there. You need folks that are very understanding in the rest of the market who your competitors are, it’s not just about us. You have to understand your customer but you also have to understand the other team. That’s the reason why sports teams watch tape, and that’s to understand what they’re going to be up against, potentially.

Folks that are interested in the space know all the players, know them well enough to fight them off but also, again, have the ability to educate customers as opposed to just try to go in and sell a widget, if you will.

Vaneet Bhaskar: I want to follow up with something Brian was saying because we’re getting some questions around breaking into the space. Just a quick aside, one of my most productive salesperson I’ve ever hired at a previous company, he knew nothing about this space coming in. But they had the growth mindset, they had a consultative nature and within two quarters, they became the best performing rep year over year. So it absolutely can be done if you have the right characteristics and mindset.

Fred Diamond: Mindset is so critical that every Thursday, we do a webcast just on mindset. Prior to the pandemic we would do something once a year on a Friday in October, now literally every single Thursday we do a show just focused on mindset. We have a question here from our good friend, John Asher.

John asks, “How do small companies use AI in their sales and marketing? Is a good answer, just use the tools from the large companies like Salesforce who are upgrading with AI tools?” A little bit of a different question here, but do you guys have any insight on how small companies could be using AI? You’re both nodding, so good.

I want to acknowledge John Asher, who asked the question. He’s been a guests on our webcast before, he’s one of the foremost sales trainers in the world so John, it’s good to see you. Vaneet, why don’t you go first? Take a stab at John’s question, then Brian.

Vaneet Bhaskar: If I understand the question, it’s how do smaller companies employ AI for sales and marketing. There’s a whole host of tools and technologies out there that will sit on top of any sales and marketing system, it doesn’t necessarily have to be Salesforce. It can be pointed at something at the mid-market, but these tools are highly effective as, let’s take the sales example, leveraging the data you’ve collecting within your CRM.

An instance to really help you look at where’s the risk associated within my sales process. What deals are most likely to push or fail? These products are SaaS-based products so often times, the cost of entry is low. You have a whole plethora of marketing AI ops tools to go after the marketing segment as well.

Fred Diamond: Brian, how about you?

Brian Krause: I would agree. We consider ourselves a small company, so we do utilize a lot of these tools. I would argue and submit that in order to compete with the larger companies, you have to be using these types of tools. Obviously, for efficiencies and the value that they can deliver and KPIs.

I read a study this week, McKinsey released their AI adoption study and the second tier of attribution or causality of AI in the organization was the view of leadership is correlated to the AI adoption strategy. Employees today want these tools and they look at their leadership as either adopting them and getting with the times or not.

The organizations that are adopting them and have a broader AI strategy, it correlated that those employees are happier, their tenure is longer, they’re more productive. I would submit that just because you’re small, you shouldn’t shy away and you should definitely be looking at tools even more so than the larger organizations.

As Vaneet mentioned, there’s a whole host of them out there and the barrier of entry is very low because most of them are SaaS products that bolt onto what you’re already doing.

Fred Diamond: Before we ask you for your final action steps, I want to thank Vaneet Bhaskar and Brian Krause. We have one final question and the question is long, so I’m going to summarize. This comes from Jessie and Jessie’s in the DC area. You’re all familiar with The Challenger Sale and you’re all familiar with the statistic that customer is 57% down the road before they even reach out to vendors. Is that the same, is that applicable in the AI space?

We talked about consultative, we talked about education. Where do you see that, customer’s knowledge before they come to you? Are you getting in early enough because the customer really wants to know? Or is it the case where the customer has already gotten all the information?

It’s something that comes up all the time, as you can imagine, on the Sales Game Changers podcast where we talk about service, certain types of software, certain types of hardware where you can get everything you need either on the internet or social media. How does AI fit into this? Does that statistic apply, does it not apply? Just to wrap up before we get your final thoughts. Vaneet, why don’t you go first?

Vaneet Bhaskar: I’m going to challenge that statistic when it comes to AI in particular, because although I do agree with it in selling certain technologies, it hasn’t been my experience with what we’re doing. Partly, because it is net new. The customer knows they have a large problem to solve for, but they may not yet know that there’s AI models and solutions out there that can actually really help them change their game in terms of driving to a solution.

In lieu of that, what we’re seeing is there’s a Herculean effort being taken by large enterprises to build data lakes and amass data to try to drive better analysis. That’s a starting point and that’s actually something we love to hear. “I need to drive more analysis.” But understanding that they need something, and that something is SaaS-based AI solution is not there. We’re catching customers earlier in that cycle and really capitalizing there.

Fred Diamond: Brian, what do you think?

Brian Krause: I continue to agree with Vaneet. The metrics play out when you look at the sales cycle of most companies. The earlier that you’re engaged with the customer directly, the higher the odds are exponentially in your favor. It’s very important to not wait for the inbound. Although inbounds are great, odds are those inbounds want to look at you as an incremental competitor in the potential project or as a potential competitive solution to what they’re using.

Your true success is going to come from getting to the customer early. It might take a little bit longer on the sale cycle, of course. But your odds of shaping the project and the requirements and how your specific technology is going to help them will ultimately seal your fate. I would say you still have to be early, everyone should still be seeking to be early and be consultative and be okay in that mode for the first X% of the sale cycle because in the long run, it’s really worth it.

Fred Diamond: Seek early and be consultative. All right, gentlemen, Brian Krause, Vaneet Bhaskar, thank you so much. I want to thank you both for giving your insights here on what sales professionals should be doing to be successful in the AI space. I want to acknowledge you both for being leaders in your field and for giving us a lot of your great insights today.

I’ve been asking Vaneet the question first, so Brian, let’s go to you. Give us your action step, something specific. You’ve given us all so many great ideas, give us something specific our listeners should do right now to take their sales career to the next level.

Brian Krause: I’m glad you brought up Challenger because there’s a lot of sales methodologies and programs out there that have these monikers, find your champion and your executive sponsor and whatnot. One of the things I think a lot about is helping people find what I call the angel in the sale.

The angel is the person that wears the halo, and what I mean by that is we all know exactly how our technology is going to impact the organization. It’s going to hit this KPI, it’s going to help them in this specific area. What sometimes we fail to remember is the halo effect of the technology in the environment.

To give you an example in our space with computer vision, a lot of what’s being done in the space is manual. You have a lot of employee attrition at the lower levels of the organization that have to run these tasks and perform these tasks on the data sets. By implementing these types of technologies, these folks now really like their job. Their job becomes fun because they get to use the technology, they get to work faster and more efficiently and they get to repurpose some of their time to maybe do something that can help them with career growth.

The challenge for a lot of organizations is that, that level of attrition, you have a lot of good people that might leave. That might not matter to the specific line of business person you’re speaking with, but it matters to somebody. If you could find that angel and say, “I’m working with so-and-so over here on their specific problem, but I want you to also be aware that we’re looking forward to the results in how much happier your people are when they start using our technology and how it impacts their morale.”

Those types of things and understanding the sales process and who the players are, finding the people and thinking about that halo impact, I’m really trying to get people to understand how to do that instead of trying to just sell to one or two people. Really try to understand how to differentiate the way we’re thinking about working with that customer, not just selling to them.

Fred Diamond: Vaneet, why don’t you bring us home? Give us your final action step. And don’t say, “I agree with Brian.” [Laughs] give us something new and fresh.

Vaneet Bhaskar: [Laughs] definitely, Brian, you’re often not selling, your sponsor internally selling for you and that has a ripple effect, so very true. I’ll give you one that’s very top of mind right now as I was having this conversation with one of our senior sellers yesterday.

Now more than ever, we have tremendous channels available to us. We tend, as sellers and people in sales, to take that for granted. We have a unique perspective to offer, we see problems in and out at various companies, different industries, various verticals. We’re almost becoming some degree of experts if you’ve had that type of experience. Leverage that, build a brand for yourself.

You can certainly do that on LinkedIn and Twitter. Start to post content. Make it so that your prospect has heard of you. They’re going to want some degree to impart that knowledge because AI is such an interesting and net new space to some degree in terms of how it’s being applied. Build a brand.

Transcribed by Mariana Badillo

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